are colleges racist?

[IndianParent]

<p>

I am also a professional, as is my DH, but our entire family believes strongly in volunteerism and community service. It is a shame you don’t see the importance of that for you or your family. It is a very rewarding experience, and having professionals work as volunteers saves the organizations many thousands of dollars.

</p>

<p>I will try my best to feel duly ashamed because I don’t share your point of view. In the meantime, I would rather give thousands of dollars. </p>

<p>

As for your other question, I do not believe in the “he with the best scores wins” philosophy of an admissions process. There is more to an applicant and to building a class than simply numbers.

</p>

<p>jym, do you believe the number of URMs would remain the same at HYPSM without AA? That is a really simple question.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

I’m arguing that it’s okay to treat people differently based on the entirety of their circumstances, particularly where the impact is <em>de minimus</em>. You wish to draw a line in the sand distinquishing race as “something no one has any control over”. I don’t know how you can say that with a straight face, coming from a culture (which you celebrate) that permits castes based on nothing more than what one’s father did for a living. Is there not something like an AA system in India that encourages Untouchables in ways that are different than Brahmins?

</p>

<p>John, do you think private institutions should be allowed to discriminate based on race? That is a really simple question.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Anyone else feel this thread is eerily similar to this myopic rant thread? Story of my 3 Asian classmates and 1 friend from my area (including myself)

</p>

<p>Boy, a lot of supposedly mature parents really acted childishly in that thread. Lots of bitterness on their part I notice.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Wow, did I say that? I said I believe the whole world benefited from the industrial revolution, and slavery made that possible.

</p>

<p>This is completely false. The industrial revolution is what enabled emancipation of slaves as machines replaced labor.</p>

<p>

Just so you know; you never heard me say that!</p>

<p>I. Don’t. Want. Your. Spot. ( I think!!)

</p>

<p>You may not, but plenty of people on this thread do. There has been talks of immigration tax, to be paid by immigrating Asians to immigrating Africans (and a minority of descendents of US slaves), in the form of AA.</p>

<p>

I believe people in all countries did and still do get exploited. I believe we all “owe”. I don’t worry too much that you don’t think so, I just don’t get how you see things in such a vacuum.

</p>

<p>I agree and that’s why I am all for AA based on SES, as it is the people in the lower SES that get exploited, and not middle and upper class URMs.</p>

<p>I do not see things in a vacuum at all. I see things as they are, and not through a lens of race.</p>

[xiggi]

<p>

That is not my aggregate position at all. My position is simple - use an objective criteria that includes academic AND non-academic performance, but excludes race, and then let the chips fall where they may. In the mean time, enable lower SES groups to achive higher performance through significant investments.

</p>

<p>Oh, I see. Let me fix that for you. Since my original list contained only things you wrote or could be understood from your posts here, I will relist them. Feel free to address each one that is wrong by writing something along the lines of … I do NOT believe that or THAT is not true. Also, I will append my list to reflect your newly defined position. </p>

<ol>
<li>Asian are academically superior because they have higher scores.</li>
<li>URM are stealing a great number of spots that a meritocratic system would give to Asians</li>
<li>The only just and fair outcome is that Asians should be rewarded with 50 percent of seats at Elite schools.</li>
<li>Since adcoms deny Asians an enrollment similar to Cal, the only conclusion is that adcoms are a bunch of racists who have an ax to grind with Asians who excel in STEM areas</li>
<li>There is no need for evidence since it is so obvious that discrimination exists.</li>
<li>Anyone who denies the “evidence” must be a racist.</li>
<li>It is useful to murky the waters by introducing the notion that AA should be SES based.</li>
<li>Admission should be based on objective criteria that includes academic AND non-academic performance
10 Admissions should exclude race, and thus racial preferences given to URM should be removed<em>. [</em>Xiggi’s comment = to obviously lower their inflated numbers]</li>
<li>“Someone” should enable lower SES groups to achieve higher performance through significant investments. [*Xiggi’s comment = since most AA is practiced by highly selective private schools, is it expected from them to eradicate the deficiencies of the entire K-16 system through investments, as opposed to offer substantial need based aid to the less fortunate?]</li>
</ol>

<p>Remember to mark the items that are erroneous!</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>xiggi, You are getting it mostly wrong. Let me help you, but please learn this time, and not be wrong in future.</p>

<p>1 and 3 are erroneous. </p>

<p>I don’t care about higher scores, and have said it many times. The exams are so easy that the high scores mean nothing. However, people who can’t even swing these easy exams are definitely academically inferior, or just plain old lazy. </p>

<p>I don’t care about fair and just outcomes. I care about even playing fields, and let the chips fall where they may. I do believe that 50% would be the likely outcome in an even playing field - which has nothing to do with fair or just. If in an even playing field the share of Asians is less or more than 50%, you won’t hear any complaints from me.</p>

<p>5 is a routine whining that AA supporters keep throwing up, and not something I said. The only honest person in that group is Hunt, who admits that without AA the URM representation in HYPSM would drop precipitously.</p>

<p>6 is erroneous and another routine whine. I believe anyone who supports AA based on race is racist.</p>

<p>7 is again something I didn’t say, it is a routine whine from AA racists. They care more about rich URMs than poor non-URMs. Such is their moral compass. It’s unfortunate.</p>

<p>Rest is OK.</p>

<p>Can you please rewrite my position based on this and report back?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>By the way xiggi, are you against investing more in education for lower SES kids? I am thinking of something like this.</p>

<p>[How</a> the SEED School Is Changing Lives - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/21/60minutes/main6506911.shtml]How”>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/21/60minutes/main6506911.shtml)</p>

<p>I think the boarding part is super important, as you have to change the home environment and push the kids to the hilt. There is no substitute for hard work.</p>

[johnwesley]

<p>Indianparent:

Quote:
“I’m arguing that it’s okay to treat people differently based on the entirety of their circumstances, particularly where the impact is <em>de minimus</em>. You wish to draw a line in the sand distinquishing race as “something no one has any control over”. I don’t know how you can say that with a straight face, coming from a culture (which you celebrate) that permits castes based on nothing more than what one’s father did for a living. Is there not something like an AA system in India that encourages Untouchables in ways that are different than Brahmins?” </p>

<p>John, do you think private institutions should be allowed to discriminate based on race? That is a really simple question.

</p>

<p>If it’s so simple, you should be able to give an example.</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>“This is completely false. The industrial revolution is what enabled emancipation of slaves as machines replaced labor.”</p>

<p>Completely? I’m not a history buff (yet) but hard for me to believe there is a " black and white" line between the industrial revolution, (capitalism), and emancipation. Looking it up!</p>

<p>“You may not, but plenty of people on this thread do. There has been talks of immigration tax, to be paid by immigrating Asians to immigrating Africans (and a minority of descendents of US slaves), in the form of AA.”</p>

<p>I can relate to that! “We” all owe.</p>

<p>Anyway, " ignore" on, and watching the World Cup!</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

If it’s so simple, you should be able to give an example.

</p>

<p>You need to me to give you an example before you will give an answer to a moral question - whether private institutions should be allowed to discriminate based on race? LOL.</p>

<p>John, I understand that it is really a hard question for you to answer, as no one who doesn’t want to come out as a racist can answer yes, and no one who wants to support AA based on race can answer no.</p>

[jym626]

<p>IP-
What is your thought on accomodations on standardized testing for students with disabilities?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>Never thought about it. Now, how about answering the question that you have been avoiding for a while - do you think the URM representation at HYPSM will drop if AA was removed? </p>

<p>For the life of me I can’t understand why you are avoiding this question. :-)</p>

[jym626]

<p>Your opinion will influence my response</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Your opinion will influence my response

</p>

<p>Really? I am that important? You don’t have an opinion right now? Wow!</p>

<p>Look, I want your unbiased opinion. Seriously, you can’t be giving different answers to different people.</p>

[johnwesley]

<p>

Quote:
“If it’s so simple, you should be able to give an example.” </p>

<p>You need to me to give you an example before you will give an answer to a moral question - whether private institutions should be allowed to discriminate based on race? LOL.</p>

<p>John, I understand that it is really a hard question for you to answer, as no one who doesn’t want to come out as a racist can answer yes, and no one who wants to support AA based on race can answer no.

</p>

<p>And, if giving an example of something so simple is beyond your capabilities as a direct descendant of royalty as well as a professional with an advanced degree in Philosophy, then what hope do any of us have?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

And, if giving an example of something so simple is beyond your capabilities as a direct descendant of royalty as well as a professional with an advanced degree in Philosophy, then what hope do any of us have?

</p>

<p>LOL John, I don’t have a degree in Philosophy. Look, if I ask you, is enslaving a human being wrong, would you similarly deflect by asking me to present a actual enslaved person as proof, or would you say that enslaving a person is always wrong?</p>

<p>Your refusal to answer a simple question - should private institutions be allowed to discriminate based on race - is really funny to watch.</p>

[johnwesley]

<p>^^^

Look, if I ask you, is enslaving a human being wrong, would you similarly deflect by asking me to present a actual enslaved person as proof, or would you say that enslaving a person is always wrong?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>See? That wasn’t hard at all. Slavery is wrong. Happy?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>LOL. So, if you can answer that question so easily John without requiring existential evidence, what’s so hard about answering the other question? What do you think? Should private institutions be allowed to discriminate based on race? It’s so funny to see you evade that like an STD.</p>

[jym626]

<p>Try reading more carefully , ip. I said my response would depend on your opinion. Btwn where is your answer to yesterdays question about the evidence supporting your belief that adcomms retliate against strong math students?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Try reading more carefully , ip. I said my response would depend on your opinion. Btwn where is your answer to yesterdays question about the evidence supporting your belief that adcomms retliate against strong math students?

</p>

<p>I told you already but you immediately dismissed the MJ evidence by saying that any evidence that supports my position is not admissible. I thought we agreed to part ways amicably on that. </p>

<p>Seriously, come on now. I asked a simple question - would URM enrollment drop in the Elite Us if AA is removed. That has nothing to do with my opinion on whether people with disabilities should get extra time on SAT. I can opine this way or that, but that won’t influence the outcome of removal of AA on URM enrollment.</p>

<p>But how about this? What if I give my opinion? Will you then answer the simple question I asked? I want some kind of an honor code here, as I am suspicious that you will again ask me something about whether the sky is green, and refuse to answer till I provide evidence that the ocean is purple.</p>