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<p>You presume right. </p>
<p>I am not big on volunteering. I am big on donations. I have donated to the best of my ability to schools in my greater neighborhood that are in lower SES. I have not and will not donate based on race. However, the beneficiaries in many cases have been URMs AND Asians, and some whites as well. I have taught my kid to do the same.</p>
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There’s no proof that they are. In fact so far what I’ve heard is colleges say they want X, you say, but we Asians are Y and that’s what they should want. </p>
<p>As to the nutshell summary “don’t apply” that’s silly. There’s room for lots of Asians and lots of STEM majors just not all of the ones who apply. “Get over it” or “deal with it” unless you can provide proof and 4 year old quotes from a discredited admissions officer is not proof, yes getting over it is probably a good suggestion. My son was probably too much of a math grind for Marrillee Jones’s admission’s office where he was turned down. Ironically Harvard liked him better. And yeah, life is not fair, but that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t fight to make it more fair. But whining on CC is probably not a very effective way to make it more fair.</p>
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<p>LOL. Go easy on the kid.</p>
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<p>You really need to “get over” the posts on this thread.</p>
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<p>The above is a complete lie.</p>
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<p>For starters, stop using race as an admissions criteria. Next, move to a more objective selection criteria. </p>
<p>Under US law, private institutions that accept Federal grants are subject to the same laws as public institutions. I am surprised that you didn’t know this. I thought this was “old news”.</p>
<p>"Perhaps you should read some Indian history rather than claiming that somehow Indians benefited? "</p>
<p>I will, thanks. So much more interesting when it’s relevant. Not even rich people benefited? No benefit from the industrial revolution in Asia? I thought for sure there were folks from Asia who immigrated to Europe and the US, and I assumed they immigrated for a reason. My bad. And too far off topic. </p>
<p>Night!</p>
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<p>No, not even the royalty benefited. There were enough Indian serfs to exploit. I know, as I come from a family of royalty. The main reason why Indians immigrated was the stupid socialist system that was put in place for some 45 years after the Indian independence. In case you are wondering, I am a hard core capitalist.</p>
<p>You need to stop thinking that the whole world is against Africans and have been exploiting them. Asians typically have never even seen an African before they come to the USA. It was the work of Europeans, who also exploited Asians as much as they could. So to ask Asians to make room from Africans is just plain strange.</p>
<p>“You need to stop thinking that the whole world is against Africans and have been exploiting them.”</p>
<p>Wow, did I say that? I said I believe the whole world benefited from the industrial revolution, and slavery made that possible. </p>
<p>" So to ask Asians to make room from Africans is just plain strange. "</p>
<p>Just so you know; you never heard me say that! </p>
<p>I. Don’t. Want. Your. Spot. ( I think!!)</p>
<p>I believe people in all countries did and still do get exploited. I believe we all “owe”. I don’t worry too much that you don’t think so, I just don’t get how you see things in such a vacuum.</p>
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<p>That is what people say when they face a reality from which they cannot escape. The complete lie is nothing else than the synthesis of what you have suggested here in more than 500 posts. Need Cliffs’ Notes?</p>
<ol>
<li>Asian are academically superior because they have higher scores.</li>
<li>URM are stealing a great number of spots that a meritocratic system would give to Asians</li>
<li>The only just and fair outcome is that Asians should be rewarded with 50 percent of seats at Elite schools.<br></li>
<li>Since adcoms deny Asians an enrollment similar to Cal, the only conclusion is that adcoms are a bunch of racists who have an ax to grind with Asians who excel in STEM areas</li>
<li>There is no need for evidence since it is so obvious that discrimination exists.</li>
<li>Anyone who denies the “evidence” must be a racist. </li>
<li>It is useful to murky the waters by introducing the notion that AA should be SES based.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>As someone above wrote, did I forget anything?</p>
<p>nice summary, xig.</p>
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That is really sad. Its easy to throw money at something. But if you truly believe that the disadvantaged/lower SES are in need of assistance, then dive in and do something directly. Don’t just wait for someone else to get their hands dirty (as it were). Volunteering/community service is very rewarding, but if you dont understand its value or perhaps think it is beneath you, then you truly miss the message of giving back to others. Your posts seem to scream of the importance of social justice, but apparently in only one direction. </p>
<p>If a person does not like something about a school, they should not apply. Happens all the time. In this case, though, it is a misperception, a belief thata type of discrimination is occurring when there is simply no evidence that it is. If it was then surely there would have been many successful law suits brought against public and/or private institutions by asian americans. Where are they?</p>
<p>Anyone else feel this thread is eerily similar to this myopic rant thread? <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1116437-story-my-3-asian-classmates-1-friend-my-area-including-myself.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1116437-story-my-3-asian-classmates-1-friend-my-area-including-myself.html?</a></p>
<p>Indianparent:
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<p>Of course you are protected from un-equal treatment by government entities, but, you’re barking up the wrong part of the Constitution. The Equal Protection Clause doesn’t apply to private businesses; it’s the Commerce Clause that allows the federal government to preempt state laws regarding private businesses and to enact enabling legislation like the civil rights laws. </p>
<p>Significantly, there has never been a federal law directly outlawing local school segregation. How could there be when almost all attempts to do so would entail governments classifying people by race (and would almost always result in massive resistance on the ground level?) It’s no wonder that enforcing the original 1954 Supreme Court decision outlawing school segregation has been an entirely court-driven process. </p>
<p>Instead, what legislation there is consists of some watered-down version of a “non-discrimination” pledge which every business signs on to and from which the words “affrimative action” are derived. The meaning of that phrase is what we’ve been arguing about for nearly 300 pages.</p>
<p>John, What is your point? That it is OK for private institutions to discriminate based on race?</p>
<p>jym, Do you think URM enrollment at Elite Us will remain at the same level without AA?</p>
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<p>I do not believe in volunteering. I prefer professionals doing the work, and people with resources helping to pay for professionals.</p>
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<p>That is not my aggregate position at all. My position is simple - use an objective criteria that includes academic AND non-academic performance, but excludes race, and then let the chips fall where they may. In the mean time, enable lower SES groups to achive higher performance through significant investments.</p>
<p>Indianquote wrote:
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<p>I’m arguing that it’s okay to treat people differently based on the entirety of their circumstances, particularly where the impact is <em>de minimus</em>. You wish to draw a line in the sand distinquishing race as “something no one has any control over”. I don’t know how you can say that with a straight face, coming from a culture (which you celebrate) that permits castes based on nothing more than what one’s father did for a living. Is there not something like an AA system in India that encourages Untouchables in ways that are different than Brahmins?</p>
<p>I am also a professional, as is my DH, but our entire family believes strongly in volunteerism and community service. It is a shame you don’t see the importance of that for you or your family. It is a very rewarding experience, and having professionals work as volunteers saves the organizations many thousands of dollars. As for your other question, I do not believe in the “he with the best scores wins” philosophy of an admissions process. There is more to an applicant and to building a class than simply numbers.</p>
<p>I demand that HYPS use my objective criteria:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Evidence of leadership, because we want to cultivate leadership so that America can dominate the world.</p></li>
<li><p>Evidence of creative risk-taking, because we want to dominate the world in innovation.</p></li>
<li><p>Evidence of athletic pursuit, because we are sick of flabby, lazy, weak Americans who burden our healthcare system. Evidence shows that athletes are more successful after graduation anyway.</p></li>
<li><p>All Americans must be to be trained to appreciate nature’s art, so there must be a mix of skin, eye, and hair color and texture represented on campus.</p></li>
<li><p>Test scores can be considered, but are not important, because they do not predict future success and can be gamed by the rich.</p></li>
<li><p>Grades can be considered, but are not important, because we know how bad high school teachers can be.</p></li>
<li><p>HYPS can take all the STEM majors they want.</p></li>
<li><p>Absolutely NO descendants of foreign royalty may be admitted, because American ideals abhor royalty. (Exceptions can be made if those descendants can prove they have spent at least 10,000 hours groveling with the masses in some helpful capacity without getting paid to do it).</p></li>
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<p>Oh, wait, I forgot, I’m a hard-core capitalist, so nevermind. I want private businesses to make those kinds of decisions on their own.</p>