are colleges racist?

[sewhappy]

<p>And of course, if what we really wanted to do was help people of Lima’s “particular race” overcome true hardship, we’d turn our attention and resources where slavery is actually still going on:</p>

<p>[Slavery</a> in modern Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_modern_Africa]Slavery”>Slavery in contemporary Africa - Wikipedia)</p>

[limabeans01]

<p>

Okay. So let me make sure I grasp your point here. Your particular race feels and experiences things that my race absolutely cannot fathom.

</p>

<p>No, you missed it. My point here is that no one from one particular race can claim to know how a person of another particular race perceives/experiences life. </p>

<p>

You know this with certitude.

</p>

<p>Seems pretty logical. I think most people would agree with it, even IP.</p>

<p>

Oh, and you know that I can choose any identity I want. It seems as if you have quite a grasp of my race. But of course, I have no grasp of yours

</p>

<p>I am not sure what your race is. I was referring to white people. If you are white, then yes, I feel in the US you are free to be whoever you want.</p>

<p>

Lima, it really saddens me that you would think that you do not have all the latitude in this world to choose your identity in life. If you want to go on defining yourself as first and foremost a member of a “particular race” then that’s fine. But do remember that is a choice you are making. And an important one.

</p>

<p>I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. I was certainly brought up to know I could choose my identity (rich, poor,educated,leader, etc…). I know the history of the Irish (my heritage) and that after a generation is was very easy to “blend in”. my American ancestors were able to “choose” to affiliate with the Irish race or not. And yes I have to define myself as a member of the white race (uhm, I am white so its kind of hard to hide). I don’t really have a choice in that matter. I’m not sure if you’re proposing the whole “colorblind” thing because that doesn’t really work.</p>

[limabeans01]

<p>

Hmmm . . . so IndianParent is treating URM kids differently then kids of his race unless he gives over his time and resources to insuring that those URM kids get the same schooling as his kid

</p>

<p>he said he felt treating people differently based on race is immoral. It would be immoral of him to do nothing if he knew people were being treated differently.</p>

<p>

Just curious, Lima, how much effort do your own parents put into insuring that underprivileged kids of different races from their own get educational opportunities as good as yours?

</p>

<p>You have no idea how much! How else do you think I got the perspective I have?</p>

[sewhappy]

<p>Lima,</p>

<p>Let’s take this slowly: You know with absolute certitude that I cannot grasp what it is to be a member of your race. You know that about my race. Yet you go on to say that members of different races cannot know what it is to be a different race.</p>

<p>If you do not grasp the inherent contradiction in your logic then . . . good luck in college!</p>

[limabeans01]

<p>I see where the confusion came from, I reread my post.</p>

<p>

As person of a particular race you really have no understanding of the issues other races face.

</p>

<p>Sorry to be so unclear. When I said “as a person of a particular race you” I wasn’t referring to IP, just people in general. That we are all of a particular race and that none of us can assume we know the issues faced by other races.</p>

<p>Sorry if you took it as a personal attack, it isn’t what I meant.</p>

[limabeans01]

<p>

Let’s take this slowly: You know with absolute certitude that I cannot grasp what it is to be a member of your race. You know that about my race. Yet you go on to say that members of different races cannot know what it is to be a different race

</p>

<p>looks like we cross-posted, I hope my explanation above cleared up any misconception.</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>“if what we really wanted to do was help people of Lima’s “particular race” overcome true hardship, we’d turn our attention and resources where slavery is actually still going on:”</p>

<p>Exactly! Instead of 4500 posts about elite US college admissions.</p>

<p>Wait; what is Lima’s “race”? A lot of the countries in the link were in the middle east or South Africa.</p>

<p>Uh oh… politics…</p>

[xiggi]

<p>

To simply look at “who gets the highest scores” without any context to their experiences is naive.

</p>

<p>Is that what IndianParent or anyone here is advocating?

</p>

<p>Despite the many twists, iterations, and mental games which would make Simon Baker ecstatic, that is very much what he is relying on to establish his vacuous allegation of discrimination. Test scores is all he really has to establish a certain meritocracy, and as pathetically twisted as this concept of meritocracy might be, there is NOTHING else.</p>

[epiphany]

<p>

The most logical thing to do is to create an objective and regularly audited framework, backed up by laws.

</p>

<p>Which describes dozens, in fact hundreds, of public institutions. Therefore, let me make a suggestion. When your daughter comes of College Application age, do keep it a secret if she intends, or you encourage her, to apply to private institutions. Because if she applies to anything other than colleges which fit the above, be prepared for the bloodiest crucifixion in CC history. (Of you, not her.) </p>

<p>I, for one, have every intention of holding your family’s decisions up to the scrutiny of moral integrity and consistency, without an unsupportable excuse about how she otherwise will be sunk into poverty and ignominy in the arguably wealthiest land on the planet. So hopefully, you are already hard at work indoctrinating her into the evil orientations of elite colleges and their vile “racism.”</p>

[jym626]

<p>

but I have seen absolutely public evidence of soul searching and course correction on part of the Elite Us on the core issue, about the collective perception of Asians being textureless math grinds.

What is the public evidence of soul searching and course correction of which you speak? Can you clarify?</p>

<p>epiphany- Good points. The public institutions are bound by certain rules and regulations by virtue of their accepting federal funds. Private institutions are permitted to put together a class as they see fit. They speak of building a class, with whatever criteria they choose. If one does not like the policies of the private colleges, LAC and U’s then by all means, don’t apply.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>

The Marilee Jones issue (I assume that is what you are referring to) is old news. If you think admissions committees are rejecting asians because oif some old unresolved issue with math-- that simply ridiculous, and baseless.

Especially at MIT which definitely accepts lots of math grinds. I know many MIT graduates disagreed with the direction MIT took under her leadership - because they felt MIT’s mission is to be the premier tech school and not like the school up the river.&lt;/p>

<p>And yeah Marilee Jones resigned (to prevent being fired) in 2007 and I did the happy dance at her comeuppance.</p>

[20more]

<p>“don’t apply”</p>

<p>“deal with it”</p>

<p>“get over it”</p>

<p>“life is not fair”</p>

<p>Did I miss anything?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

I guess this means you are out there on the front lines helping inner city schools with high rates of URM’s to be just like the school your child attends and you are so happy with. We all know the kids in those schools are treated differently.

</p>

<p>Of course not. My child has the full benefit of being born to a upper middle class family. This has nothing to do with race. This is not a socialist country where people from all SES have the same advantages.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Is that what IndianParent or anyone here is advocating?

</p>

<p>I am not. I am all for AA for lower SES.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

“Karl Marx in his influential economic history of capitalism Das Kapital claimed that ‘…the turning of Africa into a warren for the commercial hunting of black-skins, signaled the rosy dawn of the era of capitalist production.’ He argued that the slave trade was part of what he termed the ‘primitive accumulation’ of European capital, the ‘non-capitalist’ accumulation of wealth that preceded and created the financial conditions for Britain’s industrialisation.[95]”</p>

<p>I think “we” all benefited, and probably continue to benefit from racism and oppression, in an increasingly global economy.

</p>

<p>Shrinkwrap, how exactly did Indians benefit from slave trade? Britain may have benefited, but so what? Britain was sucking India dry and subjugating the Indian people using brutal means that the same time. Perhaps you should read some Indian history rather than claiming that somehow Indians benefited?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

I do disagree with moral absolutes, particularly ones that come with strong rewards for the one advocating them. As Bay and a number of others have stated, it’s easy for you to come to this country and after 20 years cherry pick which parts of its history you wish to own. I don’t know of too many other countries in the world that would allow you to do that. Would China allow you to section off the “Good Chinese Past” from the “Bad Chinese Past”? I don’t think so. Imagine trying to pass yourself off as a “Good German” in present day Germany and you’d see how absurd that morally self-righteous attitude is.

</p>

<p>I care not about other countries in the world, as I didn’t immigrate there. I immigrated to the USA and I know my rights under the law. I am entitled to Equal Protection and so are all races. If you don’t like it, amend the Constitution.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

he said he felt treating people differently based on race is immoral. It would be immoral of him to do nothing if he knew people were being treated differently.

</p>

<p>That’s why I speak, even though I don’t have a horse in the race. Asians are treated differently in college admissions and that’s totally immoral.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

“don’t apply”</p>

<p>“deal with it”</p>

<p>“get over it”</p>

<p>“life is not fair”</p>

<p>Did I miss anything?

</p>

<p>Yes. You missed that the above applies to Asians only. If AA was repealed and URMs were to hear the above, the Western civilization as we know it would come to an end.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Especially at MIT which definitely accepts lots of math grinds.

</p>

<p>Math grinds, eh? Aren’t you the proud mother of a computer science grind?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Which describes dozens, in fact hundreds, of public institutions. Therefore, let me make a suggestion. When your daughter comes of College Application age, do keep it a secret if she intends, or you encourage her, to apply to private institutions. Because if she applies to anything other than colleges which fit the above, be prepared for the bloodiest crucifixion in CC history. (Of you, not her.)</p>

<p>I, for one, have every intention of holding your family’s decisions up to the scrutiny of moral integrity and consistency, without an unsupportable excuse about how she otherwise will be sunk into poverty and ignominy in the arguably wealthiest land on the planet. So hopefully, you are already hard at work indoctrinating her into the evil orientations of elite colleges and their vile “racism.”

</p>

<p>Since private institutions that accept Federal grants are subject to the same laws as public institutions, I would rather wait for this issue to go back up in front of USSC.</p>