<p>^ Elite US college admissions aside; Do you think only whites in America benefit(/ed) from slavery/racism?? Do you think only the US was effected by, or built on the Atlantic slave trade?</p>
<p>I was not riled up at all, IP. I was frustrated by your constant and obvious avoidance of a direct question. If you are “riled up” and will persist in not answering a direct question, then yes, we have little to say. That said, anyone is permitted to post here.</p>
<p>And fwiw, no I am not the one with “strong feelings” here. I came in with a simple question which I could not get answered. I remain curious as to why you believe what you do, but alas, I will remain curious, as you will not respond with an answer that isnt simply a redirected question. You made some strong accusations about the intentions of adcomms. I wondered what it was based on. And I will continue to wonder. FWIW, reread limabeans post #4558.</p>
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<p>I really don’t know, as the Atlantic slave trade didn’t affect the Pacific or Indian countries at all.</p>
<p>Indianparent
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<p>Wasn’t that exactly the pre- <em>Bakke</em> landscape? I don’t know what the Asian application rate to the ivies was in the 1970s, but, I’m betting it was miniscule compared to today. Obviously, most of the increase in Asian enrollment since then has come at the expense of White seats. But, for reasons you don’t wish to own up to, or acknowledge, you now wish to go after the low-hanging fruit, as it were.</p>
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<p>My response remains the same. I gave a quote. You immediately discounted it as old news. What’s the point in giving more quotes? It’s not like you are going to take those quotes seriously, if you are willing to discount the quote from the Dean of Admissions at MIT. </p>
<p>This is from the top echelons of a top school, which, incidentally, specializes in STEM. One can only wonder how deep the bias is at the rest of the places. If you discount such a quote, surely you are going to discount quotes from lower ranked AdComs from lower ranked schools or similar schools that specialize in LA.</p>
<p>If Asian STEM majors are discriminated against at MIT, which has the highest Asian percentage of all of HYPSM, and is a STEM school, then the situation is bleak indeed. </p>
<p>Incidentally, you never answered what your thoughts are on math majors. Are they textureless grinds in your opinion? If yes, once again, no point having this discussion. If not, what do you think of Dean Jones’ comment, and what it indicates about the overall environment for college admissions?</p>
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<p>The increase has not come through Asian AA. It has come through Asian merit. So I fail to see your point here. Care to elucidate?</p>
<p>^^would you like some form of Asian AA? What is your point?</p>
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<p>Absolutely not. I would like the racial criteria eliminated instead, for all races.</p>
<p>Still, you asked me a question (which I answered, as is the polite thing to do), but you didn’t answer my question about what your point was.</p>
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I know that. You want what you want when you want it. But, why?</p>
<p>"I really don’t know, as the Atlantic slave trade didn’t affect the Pacific or Indian countries at all. "</p>
<p>You could be right, but I can’t imagine any thiing that effected the US or Europe, in the past, or in terms of it’s effect on the present, had no effect on the Pacific or Indian countries, immigrants to the US, Europe, West Indies, or ANY country for that matter. I have a much harder time parceling out cause and effect than you do. Maybe it’s a STEM thing …</p>
<p>As you were!</p>
<p>IP-
Agreed, you referenced the line of Marilee Jones from many years ago. I am still curious as to why you believe that adcomms are retaliating against students with strong math backgrounds. We did not experience that, and I am wondering why you believe that. And do you believe that the comment of one, now gone, admissions director represents the thought/belief system of all adcomms?</p>
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<p>Because I think treating people differently based on their race is morally wrong. You may disagree.</p>
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<p>I believe that institutions reflect the philosophy of their leaders. The leader may be gone due to a completely different issue, but I have seen absolutely public evidence of soul searching and course correction on part of the Elite Us on the core issue, about the collective perception of Asians being textureless math grinds.</p>
<p>Limabeans –</p>
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<p>Okay. So let me make sure I grasp your point here. Your particular race feels and experiences things that my race absolutely cannot fathom. You know this with certitude. In other words, your “particular race” can transcend the barriers of race and know what other races are capable of understanding and appreciating. You know that I don’t understand what it is to be your “particular race.” </p>
<p>But apparently, you are blessed with perfect racial pitch, so to speak, in that you can transcend your race and know my limitations.</p>
<p>Oh, and you know that I can choose any identity I want. It seems as if you have quite a grasp of my race. But of course, I have no grasp of yours.</p>
<p>Lima, it really saddens me that you would think that you do not have all the latitude in this world to choose your identity in life. If you want to go on defining yourself as first and foremost a member of a “particular race” then that’s fine. But do remember that is a choice you are making. And an important one.</p>
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<p>The Asian countries were European colonies for the most part. The Asians didn’t benefit from the slave trade. They were just as oppressed.</p>
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<p>I guess this means you are out there on the front lines helping inner city schools with high rates of URM’s to be just like the school your child attends and you are so happy with. We all know the kids in those schools are treated differently.</p>
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<p>This statement makes no sense at all. A [url=<a href=“http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racist]racist[/url”>RACIST Definition & Usage Examples | Dictionary.com]racist[/url</a>] is someone who holds “a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.”</p>
<p>Thus, if you are a racist, then you are actively conscious of race. The converse–if you are actively conscious of race, then you are a racist–does not have to be true. Being conscious of race but refusing to believe in racial hierarchies makes you a racialist.</p>
<p>But the contrapositive is by definition true–if you are NOT actively conscious of race, then you are NOT a racist. That is why your statement makes no sense. How can you be a racist if you don’t consider race? You’d have to define “racist” differently than I have.</p>
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<p>Is that what IndianParent or anyone here is advocating?</p>
<p>“Karl Marx in his influential economic history of capitalism Das Kapital claimed that ‘…the turning of Africa into a warren for the commercial hunting of black-skins, signaled the rosy dawn of the era of capitalist production.’ He argued that the slave trade was part of what he termed the ‘primitive accumulation’ of European capital, the ‘non-capitalist’ accumulation of wealth that preceded and created the financial conditions for Britain’s industrialisation.[95]”</p>
<p>I think “we” all benefited, and probably continue to benefit from racism and oppression, in an increasingly global economy.</p>
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<p>I do disagree with moral absolutes, particularly ones that come with strong rewards for the one advocating them. As Bay and a number of others have stated, it’s easy for you to come to this country and after 20 years cherry pick which parts of its history you wish to own. I don’t know of too many other countries in the world that would allow you to do that. Would China allow you to section off the “Good Chinese Past” from the “Bad Chinese Past”? I don’t think so. Imagine trying to pass yourself off as a “Good German” in present day Germany and you’d see how absurd that morally self-righteous attitude is.</p>
<p>Hmmm . . . so IndianParent is treating URM kids differently then kids of his race unless he gives over his time and resources to insuring that those URM kids get the same schooling as his kid.</p>
<p>Just curious, Lima, how much effort do your own parents put into insuring that underprivileged kids of different races from their own get educational opportunities as good as yours?</p>
<p>I presume that – obviously – IndianParent means for hiring and admissions decisions, race should not play role, nor should it play a role in how we respond to people in general. If he is big in volunteering then I guess he should volunteer equally on behalf of all races.</p>
<p>Sheesh.</p>