Hello. I was thinking about applying to one or two universities in the UK, and wanted to know if my AP scores were okay. I have 9 5s, one 4, and one 3. The 3 and 4 are both in classes that don’t really align with my course, and the 3 is in more of an elective AP. I was wondering if those two scores would affect me when applying to Oxford or St. Andrew’s for example.
What course at Oxford? Also need to know the AP scores by test, especially the 3 and 4.
@SJ2727 @Twoin18 @HazeGrey @skieurope @LostInTheShuffle @mumfromca @MYOS1634
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Oxford International qualifications (U.S.A.):
Either Four APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to)
St. Andrews U.S.A. entry requirements:
We look for grades of A or B in honours level courses on your high school record, or three AP subjects with scores of 4+ within the context of the rigour offered at your high school.
Your AP scores thus far look just fine. I don’t think the “3” or even the “4” will matter much. I assume that you are graduating from a high school in the U.S.
What exact APs? What course?
If there’s an exam (interview or written exam) are you preparing for it?
Why the UK?
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You are required to report all AP scores on UCAS. Oxford will look at all of them for a complete evaluation. Hard to say how it might affect it if not related to the course but obviously it might place you at a comparative disadvantage to other applicants with a better overall profile. This is what Oxford says:
Candidates are asked to enter all their scores for any tests taken when they complete their UCAS application, showing the relevant dates for each. This gives tutors a complete picture of a candidate’s academic record, rather than just the ‘superscore’ of best results for the different sections of any test taken on multiple occasions.
Score cancellation/withdrawal
We are aware that students taking APs can apply to College Board to have their scores cancelled or withdrawn. However, it is a requirement of the UCAS application process for students to declare all results, including any that have been cancelled or withdrawn, so that tutors are able to consider students’ full educational profile. Failure to declare all qualifications could result in Oxford withdrawing any offer made to you.
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I don’t pretend to know anything about UK admissions but a girl we knew got into and attended Oxford in I think economics and achieved eight 5s by the end of her junior year. I know she took 6 more AP tests her senior year - including two she self-studied for and I think got all 5s except for one 4, but was already admitted before her senior AP scores came out. She also scored 1580 on the SAT.
Her ECs were so so and I have no idea how her essays read but she was denied or WL by every Ivy, MIT, Stanford and Caltech.
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For the UK you only have one UCAS essay, which focuses on what you want to study and why. It is not university-specific. ECs don’t matter much though anything directly related to study aims would be mentioned as part of the essay. It’s not surprising that someone with stellar academics would get into Oxford but not the holistic top colleges in the US. By the same token, someone with less than stellar academics is not going to be “saved” by ECs or essays like they might in the US.
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The 3 is in AP Human Geography, which I took in 9th grade, and the 4 is in AP Spanish. The course I would be applying for would be History. I have 5s in AP World history, and APUSH.
I doubt that either university will even care about AP Human Geography. Does your high school offer AP European History? If so, I would recommend taking it.
Do you have ACT or SAT test scores?
You’d probably be fine for St Andrew’s. Are you aware of how the Oxford application process and interviews work?
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Yes, I have watched a few mock interviews, and have researched the application process.
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If you have great grades and a high SAT score, the 9 5’s are impressive. The 3 probably will not be a big issue.
As you are aware, the interviews are quite important for Oxford. The personal statement is very different than the Common App personal statement. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/application-guide/supporting-documents/statement
FYI, History also requires a submission of written work in the form of an essay or (max length) extract of one that was submitted at school.
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Are AP scores the main thing they look at?
AP (and standardized test scores, you didn’t answer that) would usually get you through the first cut. Once you make the first shortlist, the interview is critical. That’s where most people get cut. Last data show, for single history (not a combined history + degree), just over 800 applicants, 650 shortlisted (for interview), and 227 offers of a place. https://www.history.ox.ac.uk/admissions-facts-and-figures
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OP, is your HS counselor familiar with UCAS and applying to Oxford? If not, please provide them with the UCAS guidance information for counselors:
Who is writing your recommendation letter? These letters are different than the ones typically used in the US, so make sure your counselor or teacher knows what to do. Writing undergraduate references for independent applicants | UCAS
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There is no admissions test for History (V100), so the interview shortlist decision is largely going to be based on AP scores, SAT/ACT score, and the quality of written work submitted. It is a positive for you that you have the AP “5s” in hand at the time of application as opposed to them being predicted. Oxford’s website says that 73% of History applicants were interviewed, so that bodes well.
Don’t take the other items like your UCAS personal statement or your LOR for granted. As @Mwfan1921 suggests, give thought to whom you ask for your LOR and make sure that they understand the task. My son was very lucky in that his HS math teacher/LOR writer came to his school from one of the largest Oxbridge feeders in London, so she knew the drill and could benchmark him against other students that she had sent to Oxford in the past.
Please take the interviews seriously and prepare. It will be a rigorous academic interview, not a soft, “tell me about yourself” conversation. My son read maths & CS and it was eye opening to me to see the annual admissions stats and the number of applicants who knocked it out of the park on the old MAT that weren’t offered a place. In that circumstance, it had to be a poor interview performance that made the difference.
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So my S24 applied to St Andrews (and got an offer), and looked at Oxford but decided in the end not to apply. In support of him, I looked into their admissions quite a bit.
My two cents is I would not be worried about St Andrews caring about a 4 and a 3 among 11.
For Oxford–I think if they want you enough for other reasons, then you will likely be fine. And in fact they would have to like you enough for other reasons even if you had 11 5s, so this is probably not material.
But I am still a notch less confident in that assessment than I was with St Andrews. And part of the issue is they aren’t looking at APs just for subject matter mastery, but also to see how you do on high stakes standardized tests, which are much more featured in the UK educational system than the US.
A single 4 out of like 10 I wouldn’t worry about, but a 3 is arguably a little more concerning. But then you took it in 9th, so, probably not a concern? But I am not completely sure.
But, OK, what do to with this information? Like, if you want to go to Oxford, should you not apply to Oxford because you gor a 3 in 9th grade? Of course not, apply and see what happens.
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That’s part of it, but the main point of the interview (which differs by subject but ultimately all look for the same kind of thing) is to see how you think, and how you approach and deal with unfamiliar subject matter, etc. Everyone who makes it to interview stage has already passed an academic threshold on what they have already studied. So the skills they look for are quite different to what a standardized test will show and explains why some people who (as an example was given above) might do brilliantly on tests will be a clear no after an interview. As context: when I did grad school at Cambridge (who have the same kind of system), the course I was on had quite a few older students and we would often sit with the academic staff at hall (meals), and some of the discussion at that time of year (no names were used of course) would revolve around students who had done particularly well or badly in interviews, and why. (Postgrad admissions was an entirely different ballgame so it was quite an eye opener.) I did get the impression that the interviews are pretty hard to game - you can prepare for them of course and that will help, but you will almost certainly be presented with unfamiliar material and it is how you approach that that is key.
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That is harder for some courses than others. I have no doubt that my son getting shortlisted for his Maths/CS interview was helped by having good AMC 10/12 and AIME results on top of an 800 SAT math score and a 5 in AP Calc BC and Physics C.
@NiceUnparticularMan Funny interview story from my son - the CS interview was largely solving logic problems. They actually asked him a question that had been posted on the CS Department web site as an interview example! He had to hold himself back not to answer too quickly.
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