I was curious if auditionees knew who they were auditioning for prior to going into the auditions. I think it’d be helpful to know who’s in the room with you and do your research… Is there a sign on the door, or the names on a list when you register, etc.?
I’m not sure exactly. I doubt there’s anything on the door stating that, but it may be a good idea to ask the person who takes you in or someone there that is associated with the school and the auditions. But I would expect the head of the department, and one of the main vocal, acting, and dance instructors to be in there. I’m sure there can be more or less depending on the school or location, but that’s a rough expectation.
I have wondered about this also at Unifieds. Do you think the heads go to all the Unifieds? I wonder if they send three different people to the different Unifeids. A dance, vocal and acting staff and I assumed you might have three different people at each location, NY,Chicago,LV,LA. Plus maybe they get a contact in the cities to judge. I have to say to everyone this is the most insane process. I have IVY league kids, this is way more intense than their process,plus I am a bit of a hippie and I am appalled that these schools expect kids to pay money for extra training, travel, etc to allow the kid to pay the school to attend. I am sorry but this whole process is just crazy. I really really think that all the cash folks are spending on this could be saved and spent on your kiddo after college getting extra training while they are auditioning in NY LA Chi. Sorry I am just having such a reaction to the processing of these kids. What about that lovely singer from the heart of LA poor public school who applies to MT programs and gets rejected cause he did not read the approved list of songs and monos and did not know the proper way to interview etc. I just never hear any push back to the schools who seem to be using this as a cash cow. College is to learn, if your kid is already polished then send him/her of to NY and start working. Look up the great performers and see the training. Most do not have four college years. Many of the schools list someone who went to the school for one year.
@DrowsyChaperone - My D auditioned for Boston, Syracuse, Ithaca, and NYU at Chicago unifieds in 2014. The 1st three schools had their actual “head of program” there - as well as other reps from school. NYU had reps from each studio there- they had the largest group of auditors (as you can imagine) - if I recall correctly, kids were given to different “panels” for song and monologue- each panel did have someone from NSB. Dance call was as a group, and was run by head of Dance from NSB (as was Syracuse’s- Ithaca did not have a true dance call, they did “movement exercises” can’t remember who ran them)
@sbc - the BFA hunt is a very unique animal - but then again, so is the life of a performer. And you are absolutely right that there are people who hit it big without a BFA. I guess I would say- if you don’t like it, or think it’s valuable, don’t do it. There are tons of great quality non audition BAs out there (including those at Ivies, Northwestern etc, as well as LACs) where you submit your applications/essays/recs and are done. Lots of success comes from there too. Pick your journey- there is no right answer.
@sbc, the divide between economically disadvantaged students and wealthy students exists in all college majors. There have been several discussions about that on this board. For example, economically disadvantaged kids cannot afford to hire tutors for SATs, and the wealthier students can. In this respect, MT is not really any different than any other major…it is easier for kids who can afford the extras. It is, unfortunately, a fact of life. Is it fair? Nope. But life isn’t fair.
That being said, virtually everyone has access to the internet (free, at public libraries) and can do a simple search for information on MT programs. Many of the coaching programs give scholarships to students who cannot afford the coaching (Mary Anna Dennard lists the many kids she gives scholarships to on her website each year…others may not be so vocal about it, but it’s out there). If a public school student from the “heart of LA” cannot read the instructions on a MT college website, they’re not going to be able to read the instructions for any other major, either. If they don’t know how to interview, that’s going to be a problem for ALL colleges. Yes, it’s confusing, but it’s not rocket science. There are plenty of kids on this board who do it all on their own, without any help from their parents or coaches, and many of them do quite well.
I think it is rare when kids are already polished enough to get work right out of high school. But it happens, and absolutely…those kids should not have to go to college. Others, like Sutton Foster or Aaron Tveit, go for a year or two and are cast on Broadway and never look back. That’s great! As @toowonderful said, there are a multitude of different paths, and no right answer. I understand your frustration at some of the schools…but honestly, it is just supply and demand. So many kids want to do this, and the schools are fulfilling that demand by creating programs. None of them - even the holy trinity of MT schools - can guarantee success, but no college or college degree can, in any major. Some may argue that the ODDS of being successful are better if you go to a top program. I don’t know if that’s true. But I do know this: for many of these kids in the good programs (and there are a lot of them), they receive training that is invaluable to their confidence, self-esteem, and talents. And given that this is a very difficult field, giving them every possible advantage can only help. But again, every kid is different…different talents, different maturity, different types, different training needs. Everyone has to do what is best for them.
I also question whether MT programs are “cash cows” for schools. When you think of the “real estate” they take up on college campuses - studios, theaters, sound/lighting equipment, scene and costume shops, rehearsal/practice space, spare pianos - compared to “regular” majors, they are probably pretty expensive to run. At S’s program they have to run plays, and especially musicals, over three weekends in order to get enough ticket sales to cover the cost of producing.
An unfortunate fact of life for the talented poor kid “in the heart of LA”, is that w/o major family/social support the odds are against them making it through a program - ANY college program - especially if it is far from home. At least that’s how it is for the smart/talented poor in my own kids’ urban district. Are there exceptions to this? Definitely. It would be great if we could hand them a wad of cash and send them to the perfect school, but until there are some major economical/educational/social overhauls in this country, it’s not going to be much help. MT S had some “talented poor” in his HS, who landed some some prize schools with hefty scholarships, but they couldn’t afford the travel or the “extras”, and had a very difficult time leaving their social network/support system. Some left after a semester or two. Some never went. “Getting in” a BFA program is only the first hurdle. There are higher ones to come.
@ mom4broadwayboy, I have two gripes about application costs. First, the majority of schools force you to apply to the university/college before granting an audition. They must know full well that 95% or more of MT applicants do not pursue general applications if turned down for MT. That money is almost pure profit for the colleges, as I have to assume the the process is more or less automated. With some colleges getting 1000 plus MT applicants, that is a lot in general app fees. Second, when you are ditched after prescreen (as we have been at several schools), you’re not really getting the bite-of-the-apple that you paid for with your MT-dept audition fee.
Harvard (according to their website) had 34,295 applications - (and accepted 2,023) Now THAT’s an application cash cow. “Most” MT programs get “around” 1000 applications (higher and lower depending in school- I have not seen application numbers above 2500) …
@claire74, there are some schools that don’t want you to apply until after the pre-screen (Otterbein did that 3 years ago…not sure if they are still doing it); others will waive the application fee for those in financial need. Also, think about it this way…would you want your child to pass the pre-screen, be admitted artistically, and then find out they cannot attend b/c they couldn’t get in academically? The nature of the MT program is that there are two hurdles: academic and artistic. Does it matter which one comes first? You have to pass both.
I agree with @mom4bwayboy - these programs are not cash cows for the colleges/universities. Class sizes are generally tiny, costs are high. And, it costs the schools money to view pre-screens and run the auditions. I imagine they are losing money, not making money. And finally, even their huge successes on Broadway aren’t making enough money to give endowments to their alma maters!
I’m sure the colleges are making some profit from app fees, but Acceptd, DecisionDesk, Naviance, SAT/ACT, credit card companies, and whatever IT companies the admissions folks are using are using are also getting a piece of our app fee pie. Nobody is transferring all that digital information for free. The days of stuffing an envelope with pieces if paper and a check, and affixing two postage stamps are over. LOTS of entities are making money off this process.
I certainly did not enjoy application and audition fees. But they are a drop in the bucket to what was spent before college (lessons, classes, camps etc) and what is being spent ON college
Hee hee. I knew I should have not posted. Was tired and not looking forward to hours on airplanes in the winter. I do recognize the fact that all kids looking at the college application are at a disadvantage if they can not afford the private school or the extra tutoring and I am appalled at that process also. I do agree that thank fully the internet has opened up the process to so many kids that can not afford independent help. Really a big big help. I heard the cash cow reference and frankly had not thought about if that was legitimate or not. Really need to think about that. Our school has a very tiny drama and music department and the counselors know very little about performance programs so we really had zero help from the school. I have discovered some wonderful programs in the community that are available for free or at low cost to students looking for training. I am a marketing person so am interested in trying to discover how to make those known to students who do not know about these through their schools. Maybe at some of the bigger schools anyone with an interest in performance does know about these programs and our school is an anomaly.
Having been the volunteer registrar for several years for a fairly large regional audition, I can say that putting together a college theatre audition is neither cheap nor easy. Online automation helps, but does not eliminate hours and hours of work involved in:
- Organizing and maintaining the content on multiple websites (dates, times, process, instructions)
- Compiling and maintaining a working spreadsheet/database report of auditioners
- Evaluating transcripts to ensure minimum standards are met
- Scheduling hundreds of slots for different types of auditions (technical, acting, MT)
- Arranging for facilities and other logistical items
- Arranging for accompanists
- Arranging travel
- Notifying students of application times and process
- Handling requests for changes in audition times and correcting errors in applications (it is always fun when the parent puts their **own name** when filling out an application for a student)
- Scheduling audition workers
- Publishing and distributing auditioner information to the panelists
- And a big time sink - answering emails from parents and students (it is absolutely amazing how many people cannot read and understand specific information posted on a web page).
Plus, there are costs involved in using online systems, up to $25 or more per applicant.
I would imagine that for schools that receive 500+ applications per year, it takes full-time work from an administrative assistant or part-time work from several staffers to handle the administrative overheard. I doubt very seriously that MT programs make any money from their application fees (I am almost certain the money goes straight into the university general funds anyway and the Theatre Department has to fight to reclaim the money in their annual budget process).
When done right, MT programs are very expensive for college theatre departments:
- Specialized MT faculty members
- Specialized, individual voice instructors
- Specialized dance instructors
- Music Directors for musicals
- Specialized Choreographers
- Pit orchestras
- Accompanists (even though students may pay for accompanists for lessons, the department still has to pay accompanists for auditions, productions, showcases, etc.)
- Elaborate wireless, digital sound systems
- Elaborate sets and costumes (required for many musicals)
- Specialized, elaborate lighting (not many plays use moving head spot fixtures and racks of border strips)
- Additional technical staff to handle the demands of elaborate sound, lighting, etc.
- Large casts
- Large rehearsal space
- Large stages
@EmsDad, I understand your point and, yes, the programs are expensive to run. My gripe (and a gripe it is, not a deal-breaking issue) is why should any portion of those costs fall on families whose kids are not even offered an audition? The tuition fees at many of the programs are very high, too–another reason why its annoying that non-auditioning, non-attending families somehow end up absorbing part of program operations costs. If I could find a way, in my small business, to make potential customers pay me fees while delivering little or no service to 95 percent of them, that would make me very happy indeed! So long as there is more demand than supply, there is no getting around this, but it is annoying, all the same (and expensive, when you’re looking at 10, 12, 15 or even more programs).
@claire74 - for programs that prescreen, it is annoying to have to pay a full application fee and then be screened out, but, there are still costs in collecting, processing, and screening applicants. To be completely fair, schools could split the fees - you pay for the prescreen and then you have to pay an additional fee if you are invited for an audition. However, that adds another layer of complexity to an already really complex process and I can easily see why colleges don’t do that. I definitely agree that schools that prescreen and make you pay a hefty fee to apply to the university first or in tandem are kind of hard to stomach.
In the end, it is all about supply and demand. Adam Smith always prevails.
@claire74- but there is work in the prescreen as well- staff has to watch them and make the call. If a school got 1000 prescreen application- each an average of 5 min long- we are talking 80+ hours of work - the equivalent of 8 days of auditions. And I could argue that the prescreen fees are substantially less than the cost of traveling to campus or unifieds performing the same material and getting a “no” 2 weeks later - which happens all the time…
@EmsDad, It occurs to me too that programs that do not participate in Unifieds are among the most money-savvy (Baldwin-Wallace, with about 1000 applicants, stands out). All those families trek out to tiny Berea at least once, often twice, filling the Berea township coffers and local businesses with probably hundreds of thousands dollars spent on overnight stays, food, gas, coffees, and miscellaneous incidentals. If there are 1500 visits to Berea (auditions plus pre-audition visits), at a a low-ball figure of $200 a pop spent within Berea borders, that makes $300,000 spent by MT students alone. And that doesn’t include the univ application or audition fees. I love dirty math!
@claire74 - great point. The local merchants are probably the real winners.
Unfortunately, the economic insanity does not end with college auditions. Once in college, if you want to do summer stock, you have to travel all over the country and pay fees to audition for what are probably “break even” jobs at best.
Yet ANOTHER hurdle for students w/o a strong support system. H and I are once again booking hotel rooms and watching the winter weather for S to attend three different unified auditions for summer work - work that MAY cover the expense of being there.
@toowonderful, ah, but I have no faith in the integrity of the pre-screen process, having seen it from both a VP and MT perspective! No way do those profs spend more than 30 seconds flicking through the pre-screens we spent hours or weeks laboring over or worrying about. And, in most programs, I highly suspect that no more than one faculty member views a particular pre-screen. I’d love to hear otherwise from faculty, but this is what I have heard “off the record” at more than one school (admittedly VP, not MT, though I strongly suspect the time devoted to pre-screens in even lower in MT). My theory, and anyone is welcome to argue it, is that the prof takes a quick glance at the headshot and resume, then flicks through for the high-notes or whatever their fancy is, when it comes to vocals. No way do they devotedly sit and watch three minutes of each kid spewing their hearts out on screen. There are SO MANY talented candidates out there, that schools may just as well throw darts at headshots to choose auditionees. Besides, they can always persuade themselves later that it was their finely-attuned ears and auditioning skill that led them to the best possible freshman class. As I said, this is my gut feeling on the prescreen process, with a little anecdotal evidence to back it up. In short, a giant crap shot.