<p>I was already accepted to Harvard, so it’s not an issue now— but I really question the validity of SAT tests, namely the subject tests.</p>
<p>My lowest score out of SAT I and SAT II was the US History subject test, (610)… however AP US History was probably my best subject in high school and I got a 5 on the AP test. I must admit that there was a summer break in between the AP US course and the subject test, but I still felt very strong in the subject. Even more surprisingly, I constantly hear that the AP US test is much harder and more harshly graded than the SAT. </p>
<p>I also did horrendously on the math SAT and math II SAT subject test, yet got a 5 on the AP calc exam. We all know that there isn’t any real calc on either of those tests-- but with my experience I didn’t find the SATs to be indicative of what I actually knew. Maybe I am just bitter about my low scores, but I do have some AP scores to back up the idea that I do know more than my SATs would suggest. I found the SATs to be more of a test that you have to study for (which I will admit I didn’t exactly). Really though, what is the point of testing us on math from 6th, 7th, and 8th grade that we haven’t had in SOOO many years. I would much rather have complex integration on the SAT than the rather simple math that is on it now (yet, I seem to fail at the simple math). I guess a lot of the SAT concerns you thought processes (esp math), but I found some of them to be simple math that was made unecessarily tricky (confusing). I guess SATs must be some measure of intelligence, since quite brilliant people usually score near perfect. But, does anyone have any real substanative evidence to suggest that the SAT is really a measure of intelligence? Colleges seem to rely so heavily upon this test that it is sometimes scary. I just wonder if it is as valid as everyone claims. Obviously, if you score 300s on each section-- that tells colleges some important information. But does that mean that someone who scores 800 is any better than someone who scores in the 600s? It may be, but I’m not entirely convinced. Maybe I’m just stupid and scored low, who knows. </p>
<p>MFB, that was hardly the point of the OP’s post.</p>
<p>I agree with your post, knight_miler. I took IB classes, mainly, but I found that even though IB exams are certainly more difficult than SATs, I MUCH preferred the style of IB questions, especially in math. I don’t like SAT math because it tries to trick you. I think math questions should test that you can think logically through problems, not try to trip you up on minor points. Maybe I’m biased, or wrong, or just really poor at math (lol I’m inclined to believe the last) but I know several people who feel the same way I do.</p>
<p>I DID enjoy the lit SAT though. I thought it was similiar to the critical reading section of the SAT I but that it had more interesting passages. But I agree completely with your point that I don’t see how a person who gets an 800 on a section of the SAT can be judged to be more intelligent than a person who gets a 600. When the discrepancies are large (you mentioned 800 v. 300) the differences are more obvious, but I too am wary of the SATs use in judging someone’s intelligence or ability to follow coursework at a university.</p>
<p>I hate multiple choice tests anyway. Another reason I think IB exams are great, lol.</p>
<p>Incredibly stupid exams. The more you practice, the better you do… that’s literally all there is to it.</p>
<p>Having said that however, I think the SAT can tell you a lot about what you’re naturally gifted at, and what you’re only good at because you study hard. Basically I took SAT Is having done a few practice tests, and SAT IIs cold. On SAT I my best section by far was Critical Reading, on SAT II my best section by far was Literature. The others, French and Maths, were about 20-40 marks below 700. Of these subjects, I’m doing French and Maths at A-Level and find these the easiest to get A’s in, whereas I gave up Literature last year. English used to be my favourite subject, I used to like reading a lot and my dad was an English major at uni, and his passion probably spilled over to me when I was younger. So basically look at your top scores, think about it a while, and see if those are the subjects you truly believe you’re good at (and not just good at because the APs are easy, you work hard at them, or test different techniques).</p>
<p>Another thing that annoys me is the essay. I don’t understand how you can write such a regulated essay and make it good, especially in 25 minutes. And apparently universities use it to compare with your autobiographical essay… despite the fact that you get an infinite amount of time to write the latter.</p>
<p>Yeah, I need more than 25 minutes to write a decent essay… my SAT essay was beyond-horrible, lol. no joke… i pretty much made up a “personal experience” that never happened because I panicked!</p>
<p>I really don’t like the topics, either. It’s always something super-generic, like courage or peace or prejudice or peer pressure. Blech.</p>
<p>yes mfb, that wasn’t the point to the post, but you can get into Harvard with 4s… but be warned, there is no cutoff anywhere really and there is no magic formula. As my experience dictates, Harvard truly does admit individuals rather than numbers and statistics. This is why kids with perfect SAT scores across the board, etc. don’t get in and some people with some obvious flaws do. Obviously to get in you have to be pretty special (I still don’t know how I got in…), but beyond a certain point, they really are assessing your individuality and admitting a person they feel they have gotten to know, connected with, and began to understand closely (if at all possible through paper). From stories I have heard, adcoms can really emotionally attach to an applicant and his/her lifestory… fighting the committee at large to get that applicant in (there’s this whole process of prescreening and then reporting and presenting the essence of the applicant to the larger committee).</p>
<p>Never doubt yourself. I never dreamed in a million years that I would get in… but I did! Really, don’t limit yourself. If you really want to go to Harvard (well even a little at all), I encourage you to apply. It can’t hurt to apply (except the money it costs to apply and possibly a slightly bruised ego). Just do it… pour your soul into the application, convey your true self, and then find out your fate through email. </p>
<p>Also, I would encourage anyone interested in applying to Harvard to apply early action… I honestly believe it helps. Plus, even if you get defered, it gives the adcom more time to get to know you and more time for you to strength your application!</p>
<p>I agree that SAT math seems to be trickier than it needs to sometimes.
About the measure of intelligence, no test can accurately measure a person’s intelligence, the sum of all his/her life experiences, and reduce that to a number. A is not smarter than B if A got a 2350 and B got a 2250 on the SAT solely based on that test. I think the thing is that the SAT/ACT tests simply have a high correlation between high scorers and smarter students.</p>
<p>my issue has always been with the ap exams rather than the sat. it just seems absurd that it’s possible (so i hear, and depending on the subject) to score a 5 on an ap exam having only 50 % of the questions correct. i also feel like they’re just way too easy to bs, whereas on the sat a lot of the time you either know the answer or you don’t, and it’s difficult to fake because you’re penalized for random guessing. i always felt that my ap scores were overly generous, not to say that all students who score 5’s don’t deserve them. obviously some students are capable of scoring a 5 simply on what they know but for others, i think that they’re more skilled at appearing to know than at actually knowing the material.</p>
<p>The SATs are not a particularly strong predictor of academic success, which is why they’re no longer called “Scholastic Aptitude Tests.” But what they measure is not insignificant either. It could be that they’re a pretty good indicator of the value a particular student might bring to a classroom discussion.</p>
<p>do they actually bother reading your sat essay? i tried to look at mine online but i couldn’t make out one word (it still got a perfect score though…lol)</p>
<p>I don’t agree with any previous posters on this thread. The SAT gauges something completely different from what the AP program gauges. APs measure knowledge–skill level/mastery of a certain subject. In other words, did you learn X. SATs do measure skills up to a point…but they also measure intelligence. I don’t really know what the SAT is SUPPOSED to measure, but it does measure smarts, among other things. APs measure smarts less.
So maybe you did better in APs/IBs because you are an excellent student, but just aren’t as smart. That isn’t an insult…SATs don’t predict future academic success well and what really counts in life is effort.</p>