Are some kids burning out, peaking early by the time they get into college?

I was reading a Harvard alum blogger who has an article " How to Get Into Harvard and the Ivy League" and can’t help wondering if some top college applicants are burning out or peaking too early?

To give you background, the author was a top student with perfect grades/test scores/and ECs off the chart (e.g. 12 APs, 4.0, ACT 36, SAT 1600 but most importantly Research Science Institute scholar, Jisan Research Institute engineering head, US National Chemistry Olympiad award winner, Siemens Westinghouse math/science/technology semi-finalist, college research projects, 8 years of violin with practice every day, etc.) all before he turned 18 years old!

The kicker is that he wanted to get a MD/PhD and be a medical doctor, but 4 years into the graduate program he quit to do something totally non STEM related.

Do you think kids are pushing themselves too much?

I would say his interests probably changed with his exposure to college/the “real” world which is common with many many kids.

Peaking is a hard term to guage as in high school you have a lot of opportunities to try different things and reach the “peak” of those. However, are there really that many “science” or debate competitions for adults? Adults usually focus on a few things that are very important to them in addition to their numerous other responsibilities.

Absolutely, long time high achievers can burn out. And I have read that those who pursue a goal of elite admission throughout high school sometimes get depressed once on that is achieved ( before moving on to the next elite goal). That is why posters on this forum encourage high schoolers to avoid living for admissions and instead pursue genuine interests and even occasionally some down time

Students change their minds, majors, and career paths all the time. Many go into college not knowing their full range of options and passions. Some go in pushed by family since birth to follow a certain path (Be a doctor!) and then find their own voice and path.

I do think some get burnt out given the intensity of their high school experiences and the competition they feel to get into the “best” or most prestigious colleges.

Many of the top colleges and universities are big advocates of gap years. There are many benefits to taking a gap year and spending that time learning experientially but one of them is definitely getting off the hamster wheel for awhile and refreshing oneself.

I think the question is where the motivation is coming from. If the kid is motivated, then there is probably less burnout though interests can change. If the motivator is the parental units…well…I suspect burnout is inevitable.

Lots of kids have various mental health disorders at this age.

Olympic level athletes suffer from eating disorders and depression-- and “burnout”.
Young men in the military have high rates of suicide- depression, plus access to a weapon.
Young people who don’t go to college- they live at home, in economically depressed areas- and they are Oxy addicts.
Young people who live at home, don’t go to college, and get good jobs (relatively) right out of college and guess what- they suffer from burnout too. No longer the football star or the prom queen.

I would hate to draw the line between “Kid is depressed or burnt out and it’s because he wanted to go to Harvard so badly”. This entire age group suffers from a wide range of mental illnesses and only a tiny fraction of them can find Harvard on a map, let alone aspires to go there.

The Harvard blogger I referenced is a big advocate of “specializing” in high school by finding one thing that you do very well and do a deep dive into mastering it. There used to be a time not long ago where HS students were encouraged to try different things and be well-rounded academically, in the arts, athletically, and socially. I worry about what kind of 13-17yo kids we are mass producing where if they don’t specialize (e.g. excel in computer programming) by the time they graduate from HS, they are perceived as being several steps behind their peers?

One defining trait of perfectionists is that when they reach a goal, they feel relief that they did not fail, rather than joy that they succeeded. Many, many high achieving kids are perfectionists. Perfectionists seldom have the mental space to figure out what they love.

I think you are giving one random blogger a whole lot of credence.

HS kids are STILL encouraged to try different things. My kids did debate, softball (they were terrible players but they loved playing), yearbook, newspaper, a couple of school plays even with no talent (there is always room in a musical for someone to stand in the back and shuffle while mouthing the words during a big number), political clubs, volunteer work, etc. The HS kids in my neighborhood work in local businesses, play tennis, volunteer for local charities and organizations, play in the youth orchestra, perform stand up, rake leaves and shovel snow for elderly neighbors. Doesn’t seem like much has changed since my kids were in HS except for the ubiquitous phone and selfie taking.

Is this Harvard blogger a savant of some kind?

@blossom - “I think you are giving one random blogger a whole lot of credence…Is this Harvard blogger a savant of some kind”

This Harvard blogger, Allen Cheng, is the co-founder of a very popular college test prep company and website called “PrepScholar”. You night have heard of it? They have a lot of influence with students who are obsessed with getting into top colleges.

I’ve heard of a few kids who burn out after IB programs.

The issue of students breaking under pressure was brought to my attention recently with the opioid-related death of Columbia University student Gage Bellitto. Bellitto was seeing a psychiatrist and had had problems with drugs and alcohol since high school. However, he pushed himself to get into an Ivy to make his Harvard-educated parents proud.

From the NY Post article:
“Students at competitive schools are at a higher risk of using opioids to cope with academic and social pressures, said Sean Esteban McCabe, a University of Michigan professor and expert on student addiction.”

https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/how-a-promising-ivy-league-student-became-another-opioid-crisis-victim/

This article has more info, but it is the Daily Mail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5409359/Columbia-student-died-opioid-overdose-dorm-room.html

I don’t think that Allen Cheng makes a good poster child for the hazards of burn-out due to high achievement before college.

Based on his Linked In profile, he completed a Ph.D. in Synthetic Biology at MIT, in connection with his enrollment in the MD/PhD program at Harvard and MIT.

There are MD/PhD programs where the PhD is really a “PhD lite” compared to a PhD undertaken as a solo program. However, Cheng’s PhD looks perfectly real to me. Of the four publications listed on his profile, he is first author on two, one in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences and one in Annual Review of Biomedical Engineering. He is third author on two others, one in Nature Nanotechnology and one in Nature Biotechnology. The latter two are quite high profile journals. This is quite respectable, and it should provide the preparation for a good post-doc stint, if Cheng had wanted to follow that route. If he had wanted a good post-doc, he probably would have stayed longer in the PhD program, and not finished up as quickly as he did (given that part of the time post BA was spent on MD coursework). Without really digging into it, I am not sure who invented “massively parallel high-order combinatorial genetics,” but it looks as though Cheng’s thesis advisor at MIT, Timothy Lu, had at least a guiding hand in it, and the role of other co-authors should be known, to form a reliable opinion, though.

I think that Cheng did not find the MD part of the program, and the prospect of the future as a physician, as rewarding as he anticipated. There is nothing wrong with that. I am not sure how much time Cheng spent shadowing physicians, nor how much exposure he gained to actual medical practice before embarking on the MD/PhD program. His high school profile would indicate little, if any. He may have done some medically-related volunteering while he was a Harvard undergrad, but that is unclear.

In my view, for a very bright person, the rewards in physics and chemistry, and probably in engineering, come along at a faster clip than in biology and medicine. There is certainly “grunt” work in any field, but I think that the ratio of demands in terms of physical work and dedication, relative to the demands of intellectual work, may be greater in the biological sciences and medicine. For example, Cheng refers in his blog to thinking about problems while he is doing other things (walking around campus, performing routine tasks). One can handle the higher math courses at Harvard very effectively in that way. One can’t handle lab research in the biological sciences in that way, really. An idea could be generated in that way, but it would still need to be implemented, whereas in mathematics, much of the work could essentially be done while walking around–all that is left is tying up details (assuming one’s idea is right) and the writing.

If you haven’t seen the “Bad Project” video on YouTube, a parody of “Bad Romance,” I highly recommend it. (Blot/blot/Western blot). The portrayal of day-to-day work in the biological sciences is not wildly off, in my opinion. It is a parody, but there is some truth there.

One other factor in the “burn out” hypothesis: Despite the fact that the assorted science competitions for high school students are very competitive, in a certain way they are “low hanging fruit,” in terms of the national recognition achieved, relative to time spent. Later in a STEM career, much more time is needed. The obstacles and discouragements are greater. True, the peaks may also be greater. But when a student is developing a “spiky” profile for college admission, and when the graduate is working in a STEM field later, the question comes up: Is the person addicted to his/her field, or is the person addicted to “success”? There are easier routes to success.

I also recommend the Daft Punk “Get Lucky” parody (Get Published), by the Yale Second-Year Genetics Class (I assume this is grad students), which is also available on YouTube. Again, a parody, but there is a non-zero relation to real life in the field.

I went to some of the most stressful colleges and have seen many cases of burnouts during my college days, so I believe we shouldn’t push kids into colleges that they could barely get into. I strongly disagree with the sentiment often expressed on CC that AOs know best and you can do the work if they accept you. If you’re already stretched to the limit without reserve before you get into college, you need to really think hard.

“I hate this place,” decorated with some “colorful metaphors” in the words of Spock, seems to be a common-enough statement at MIT, so that would be consistent with the post by 1NJParent. On the other hand, I have not heard this at other universities.

The possibility of burnout due to attending a college that one could barely get into does not apply to students like Cheng, though.

I think it is more a case of figuring out where his real interests lie.

I am not sure what else he is doing besides PrepScholar.

@QuantMech Yes, I agree. His case may be different.

I think that often the traits that make us “good children” work against us as adults. Successful children are often hard working rule followers. They want those around them to be proud but they can also inaccurately assume a lot on what others want. They are young and inexperienced and mistake how it feels to be good at something with interest and passion. As a parent, it’s easy to inadvertently push them and not realize the pressure a kid is feeling in any one area. It’s easy to see “my kid is so passionate and driven” without seeing “my kid may think this is what I need from them.”

Add that the accolades stop. Before college, life can be a sea of external praise and awards. There is always another competition. Another external motivation to keep you focused. Take that away and it’s just work in a field that maybe isn’t as attractive without the glory.

These kids go to college surrounded by people who aren’t particularly invested in them and they can flounder, not sure how to stay motivated without the external pressure they’ve always felt (even when that perceived pressure was conjured up internally.) many kids regroup, find something they “actually” care about but others just get lost and burn out struggling to figure it out in the 4 short years of college.

I agree with posters who stressed the importance of encouraging teens to enjoy their high school experience.

That said, I know that my own experience as someone who attended a top college, as well as my husband’s experience, was that we never worked as hard the whole rest of our lives as we worked in high school. So I did not experience burnout, but rather intellectual rejuvenation, in college.

I thought college (Williams) and grad school (Columbia) were easier than high school because, even though the work itself at Williams was more challenging and intellectually stimulating, it was so much easier to manage your time.

In high school, you are in class all day, then you do your extracurriculars, then you are up late doing homework, and you barely sleep. In college, you attend class for only a couple of hours each day. Suddenly, you have plenty of time to balance your readings and the writing of papers with time to do your extracurriculars and even to socialize. You have time to love learning for its own sake. As long as you have good time management skills, getting your work done in college is more manageable than getting your work done in high school. The work is more challenging, but there is so much more time for it!