<p>Do we have the same daughter, missypie???</p>
<p>We struggle with this with DS2. What helps a LOT (much to DH’s shock) is athletics. (DH never did sports, so he was more than skeptical when DS2 got interested.) </p>
<p>What has worked for DS:</p>
<p>DS2 is a soph on the football team and gets home at 6:30 every night. He has 2-3 hours of HW every night – he’s also in an intense IB program. Six pre-IB courses, two of which are also AP. When he gets home at 3:00, he spends 3 hours b****ing about how much work he has to do, as well as the requisite social check-in on IM and Facebook, and very little time is spent doing HW. When it’s football season, he gets home and gets cranking – he knows that otherwise, he’ll be up til midnight, and this is a kid who absolutely needs to hit the hay by 10:00. He just doesn’t function without 8 hours. Period. He’s trying to decide whether to do a winter and/or spring sport.</p>
<p>We also worked with his doc to fine-tune his ADD medication last spring after his huge growth spurt. This helps him stay focused through HW, but doesn’t affect his sleep.</p>
<p>The most useful thing for our family, however, is time-shifting HW when possible. For example, he has a USH quiz every Thursday, covering that week’s chapter. He spends several hours on Sunday taking his notes for the week – so rather than spend a hour a night on the weeknights, he has it done and is prepared when the teacher talks about it in class – and he only has to review on Wed. night. Chem or Environmental labs due by the end of the week? Write 'em up over the weekend. Debate tournament in two weeks? Do the research and outline in advance. He tries to get all the HW he knows about done over the weekend – that way, he can still go to karate class and Hebrew school during the week. We make a list of Friday afternoon to reduce “oops, I forgot” on Sunday night.</p>
<p>It has reduced a lot of the daily HW stress when he knows he has already finished two of four assignments for a given night. He does not do well sitting and doing HW for six hours on end (unlike DS1, who will take one evening and get everything done, and play the rest of the time). Breaking it up into manageable pieces works for him. (Personally, I would feel like “this never ENDS!” – but it works for DS2.)</p>
<p>DS resisted tooth and nail last year, but this year, combined with the other things, it is paying off with grades, and he is seeing the light. (And I’m not looking for a 4.0; a 3.5+ with his courseload and solid, sustained effort on his part is FINE with me.) He also finds he has more time for his social life when he’s got some of the mountains reduced to hills. I am nagging less. Win-win.</p>
<p>We have pulled the Internet when HW doesn’t get done. To me, that’s not a “this work is too hard” issue – it’s an unwillingness to take responsibility and exercise time management. Big Difference in my book.</p>
<p>If they do their best and still get B’s, that’s fine with me, but I have no patience for laziness. My son kills me w/his “Oh, well” attitude, but I’ve come to realize that punishment is not the answer for him. We’re trying to reward hard work (this is not an arrangement w/ him, just lots of positive reinforcement.) His progress report came in yesterday and we were really pleased. I’m really trying to focus on the positive and not the negative and life is a lot more pleasant around here.</p>
<p>There were definitely consequences for bad grades in our house: The parents got upset stomachs and muttered darkly to one another. And one or the other (or both) of us may have had a Stern Talk with the child in question about What Went Wrong and What We Are Going To Do Differently.</p>
<p>The same think might happen in college if they bothered to tell us their grades in real time. Actually, our daughter has been doing that . . . since she started getting better grades.</p>
<p>I’d meet with s & d (individually) and ask how THEY think it’s going. Are they pleased with the grades they’re getting? If so, do they realize that this will impact their future choices (eligibility for courses in the future, college choice, scholarship elegibility, teacher recommendations)? What are the teacher comments? We would tend to not micromanage if 1) the kid is happy 2) the teacher is happy 3) the grades are Bs or better. I might ask if they’d be willing to experiment with putting games/tv on hold on weeknights.<br>
Unless your s and d are on-board with your plan (and want to improve their grades) it’s likely to fail.</p>
<p>I’ve been trying to get my freshman to use her weekend time well. Friday night I feel like we ALL need a break. But I’ve told DD that she can’t take Friday night off AND sleep till 11 on Saturday morning. Sundays are taken up with church, youth choir and frequent dance practices.</p>
<p>Last year DS2 really struggled with math. (His middle school teachers did him no favors.) He was fighting for a B much of the year, with DS, DH and me tutoring him (poor kid!) and giving him lots of extra practice so he could hold his head above water. This was ultimately at the expense of other classes where he should have done very well with enough time to study, and caused DS2, DH and I to sit down and look at what math track would be best for him over the next three years. </p>
<p>This year he’s in a slightly less intense pre-calc class and has a strong A, and he has time to devote to other classes, too. He’ll do AP Calc AB next year and AP Stat senior year. He’s not planning on majoring in math, CS or engineering, this is sufficiently challenging for the schools’s he’s considering, but it still gives him the background he’d need if by some chance he decides to pursue some heavy science that will require more math.</p>
<p>It’s also allowing me to back off, which I think is REALLY important, esp. at this stage of HS, and with this kiddo. He needs to find his internal motivation and I need to get out of the way!</p>
<p>missypie, I absolutely agree with you about Friday nights. We are all fried from the week and nothing productive gets done.</p>
<p>Yeah, I’m worried about my son in PreCalc. No one in our family is very skilled at math. He has been in regular math classes and has received low As or Bs, with good teachers. This year he has Dolores Umbridge for PreCalc and I think that as the year goes on, we’ll be thrilled with a B. </p>
<p>In another era (like MY era) this is a child who would have stopped Math after Algebra II. But we’re in this “everyone takes 4 years of Math” era, so there’s my poor son in PreCalc. (I AM going to have him take AP Stats next year, however, because he wants to be a Psychologist and if he can’t handle Stats, he needs to know that ASAP.)</p>
<p>I agree with those who say that it is important to discern the reason for the less than stellar grades. Less than stellar effort? Or, is maximum effort being expended and a B/B+ the maximum grade that can be attained? In our house, when I have seen the computer being used for non-school purposes for an inordinate amount of time, I have hung up a sign on the computer. “Please do not use the computer for any reason other than schoolwork.” If grades come into this house which do not reflect the intellectual ability of my kids, I would not hesitate to curtail all TV watching and computer use. I have thought about restricting EC activities, but have never done that for reasons articulated by others here. “Work expands to fit time.”</p>
<p>Ask that daughter do the homework and study to the best of her ability, and listen diligently in class. You can check with her teacher to make sure she’s doing those things.</p>
<p>There may come a time when you will find yourself sacrificing rigor of curriculum for ECs. That’s a choice you and D will have to make. Our oldest S played varsity football and baseball from 9th through 12th, basically year round getting home between 6:30 and 7:00. We knew if he was going to maintain a decent GPA that he would not be able to take the most rigorous curriculum his school offers and still do two sports. He ended up with five APs and the rest honors, and picked his electives wisely. Did he end up in a top 10 LAC or Ivy? No. He is very happy at a state U in the honors program. That was a choice we made, however unwise some might think. You only live once. Taking away the experience of playing varsity sports was not, in our book, an acceptable trade-off. </p>
<p>You have to look at your cards and decide- dance, less rigorous curriculum, less elite college? Or no dance, study instead, rigorous curriculum, more elite college? Think about her happiness, both in her high school years and beyond. Will the happiness of getting into a better college (maybe…) offset the unhappiness of giving up an activity she loves? And then again, you never know where the dance will lead, either. Perhaps she’ll end up dancing in college as well…</p>
<p>Sunday afternoons is homework time for my Ds school, and for Ds college it seems</p>
<p>When My D has a busy Sunday, I push to get her up on Saturday by 9, no matter how late she was up the night before, and she can get alot done by 11…she will grope and whine, but always is glad she got it done</p>
<p>Often she does it Sundays in the AM, at least part, then she does some shopping or a movie and then back to HW…if Saturday is busy</p>
<p>I think sometimes, choir and churh may just need to be missed one weekend for some down time, imo…at least one morning should be relaxed</p>
<p>She’s already sacrificing GPA for dance (and choir). The school has a blocked schedule (4 classes every day) and all sports, dance, cheer and marching band are double blocked classes, so they can have them every day. They are, of course, “regular” classes (no extra weight for pre-AP or AP).</p>
<p>I always think that it is sad when we see the bios of the Valedictorians in our district. They either didn’t do a double blocked activity at all, or dropped their sport in 11th or 12th grade so they could take two extra AP classes and keep the GPA up. I know I might feel it was worth it if I had a child hugging the number 1 or 2 spot, but it’s always saddened me.</p>
<p>I can see my daughter being totally happy at a big state university, probably on their drill team. But as she is only 14, I want her to keep her options open, in case she becomes more intellectually serious later on. (Elle Wood did.)</p>
<p><a href=“I%20AM%20going%20to%20have%20him%20take%20AP%20Stats%20next%20year,%20however,%20because%20he%20wants%20to%20be%20a%20Psychologist%20and%20if%20he%20can’t%20handle%20Stats,%20he%20needs%20to%20know%20that%20ASAP.”>quote</a>
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<p>Lighten UP. My S had a hard time with Math in high school, but now in his required college class he’s doing great. Maybe S will learn to study better and can’t statistics wait until college? Or even the career decision?</p>
<p>missypie,
The bottom line, for us, is to prepare them to succeed in college. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they have to make straight As in order to succeed. It also doesn’t necessarily mean that they have to take 10 APs in order to succeed. Lots of kids don’t even “bloom” until they go to college. I’ve seen late bloomers go to CC, then transfer to a university, and go on to law school, grad school, you name it. The almighty high school transcript is not the end all/be all- unless you are dead set on going to a very selective university. </p>
<p>Although, I still say that you want to make sure she’s doing the homework, putting in a reasonable study time, and paying attention in class.</p>
<p>You’d be surprised how many students do not focus in class, or utilize classtime effectively. I’m not a teacher, but I’ve done some subbing, and it amazed me the first few times to see kids fritter away time chit-chatting, writing notes to each other, sleeping or daydreaming… when they could have been getting their homework done. Once, a teacher left me with viewgraphs to put up with all the answers to next day’s test. All the students had to do was copy it. Still, there were several students who spent the period talking and lolling around their desks. Amazing. </p>
<p>After that experience, I started talking to my kids a lot about how they can get an AWFUL LOT done during class, and study LESS at home, if they pay attention 100% of the time and work feverishly while they are there.</p>
<p>Not saying that your daughter doesn’t focus, just that you can’t say too many times to a student- pay attention to everything the teacher says in class and use the time wisely!</p>
<p>I can understand your wanting to keep options open.
If your daughter wants to be on a drill team or cheerleading squad, chances are she will be happy at a “football” school, where the drill team/cheerleaders get to really show off their stuff. Most big football schools are state U’s, and most of them are not nearly as difficult to get into as top LACs and Ivies. This is basically the issue we faced with S- he did not want to go to a LAC or an Ivy; he wanted a top football/basketball school with insane school spirit and over-the-top sports spectacles. Therefore, killing himself over grades, taking umpteen APs and giving up sports was an irrational choice.</p>
<p>Despite the time that, in theory could be used productively for more study, I thought sports in HS (and college) was time well spent for growing bodies that are meant to move. Getting home at 6:30, dinner, homework and music practice was a busy but productive life. TV essentially had no part in it, though rather amusingly, they insisted on the one night of a TV program that they’d started watching in middle school when at their dad’s every Thurs. I figured one hour a week, in this culture wasn’t too bad. Now I do think HS grades, as well as hours slept might have improved if facebook and IM were not on the computer. But very hard to separate those out when they’re researching papers and so on. They did wonderfully in the subjects they cared about, Bs in math and sometimes science. I tried, suggested tutors, but at a certain point, they make up their own minds, and live with the consequences. I always thought in another situation perhaps I’d have structured things better, but after a point, you just do the best you can.</p>
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<p>The highest math course our huge high school offers to its most advanced math students is Calc AB for SENIORS. My son is very strong in math and this was the highest level of math my son took in h.s. As a very strong math student, he would have thrived in the more advanced math courses offered by some more academically advanced high schools, but he was admitted as a prospective computer science major to top schools and did extremely well in his college courses in math, computer science, and related fields.</p>
<p>It is kind of frightening to hear that your son is now on a “less intense” level of “only” taking Calc AB as a junior. I would think that any curriculum more advanced than that would be reserved for the very few strongest math students.</p>
<p>I agree motheroftwo. My son took Calc AB, is doing engineering and has done well in all his math classes. He is a paid calc tutor now. It isn’t necessary to take every AP class available in order to be successful in college.</p>
<p>Cross posted with Doubleplay. Yes, efficiency in class is essential. My son went through HS doing homework during any downtime in classes, so had more time for sports and work. And had the rather frightening advice for his sisters to not take notes in college, as notes are on line. But his grades improved every year in college, somehow, so he found some systems that worked for him.</p>