Are they stupid or do they think we are stupid.....

Parents Forum
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<p>jlauer, I agree with you that it is normal to forget something occasionally. I am sure teachers do, the principal does, and superintendant does b/c we are human. It is the kid that gets the F. I think a teacher can teach for the day without staring at her classnotes, or lesson plans should they be forgotten, and the day goes by, and the students still learned. </p>

<p>I remember teachers saying that if you forget at work, you won’t have a job. Yes, that is true, if you forget things daily. The truth is that adults forget things they need for work, and they drive home to get it, or they make due without it for a day. They might even use fedex, or some other same day delivery service if someone is home, should it be urgent.</p>

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<p>Let me first start by saying I have the ultimate respect for teachers. One of my dearest friends is a kgn teacher in a high risk school. You couldn’t pay me to do what she does. I am extremely impressed. Please, teachers, don’t take these anecdotes personally. There was a thread a few weeks back that poked fun at males and their behaviors. There were some very clever and entertaining posts, but a few males got their panties in a wad and thus followed the cracks about women. </p>

<p>I noticed, in reading this thread, that many of our powerful school memories (good and bad) are from our elementary school years. Those are very impressionable years, and teachers, spending so much time with children each day, have a strong influence. I have wonderful memories of my kgn, 1st, and 3rd grade teachers. Like many here, my 2nd grade teacher was an ogre. Mean-spirited, unduly harsh and downright scary. She was the stereotypical “old maid” and looked like the lady on the deck of cards. I remember one day sitting at my desk, looking at (dare I say “playing with”, as I turned it on my wrist) this pretty bracelet that my uncle had given me the weekend before. She put me in a chair OUT IN THE HALL because I was turning it around on my wrist, (slowly, to look at the different colors, and only once, not repeatedly). How humiliating. It still bothers me. My older s’s 4th grade teacher called me and him in the first week of school and literally verbally abused and berated him (in front of me!!) for touching her tissue box and stapler on her desk without permission! I was so stunned at how she behaved that I couldnt say anything at the time. For weeks he cried himself to sleep, saying “I’m a good kid, why does she hate me?” . She traumatized the entire class. One of the kid’s digital watches accidentally beeped on the hour (they were supposed to turn that feature off “because it disrupted the class”.) She held the entire class hostage, scared the pants off all the kids, threatened them and wouldn’t let them do anything until the “culprit” confessed. They were all freaked out by her over-the-top behavior. Fortunately, she was gone by xmas break. Yes, there are unhealthy people who go into the teaching profession, as there are unhealthy people who go into many, many professions. It is probably because of the significant impact that teachers have on our young kids (and ourselves) that prompts stronger feelings. Most of the impact that teachers have on these malliable minds is positive. Just not all of it. And the real emotionally charged memories (good and bad) stick with us. </p>

<p>** Footnote: My 5th grade teacher (a female) promised us no homework every time the Mets won a game (it was their first year as a team). It happened once. But I still remember the offer. My 8th grade math teacher greeted us our first day with a bull whip. Cool lady. I really liked her. </p>

<p>*** Flash** News article that was just on TV. A HS kid was forced by one of his teachers to lie on the floor while his classmates threw wadded up paper at him because he was wearing a Seattle Seahawks jersey instead of the hometown favorite, the Steelers. I believe he was also required to take a test on the floor. He said he wanted to get up and leave but he was afraid he would get a detention for leaving the classroom. Sad.</p>

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<p><<<< that many of our powerful school memories (good and bad) are from our elementary school years. Those are very impressionable years, and teachers, spending so much time with children each day, have a strong influence. >>></p>

<p>This is so true… I still have bad memories of my 2nd grade teacher who said I was “cheating” during a spelling bee because I would close my eyes when I spelled. She said it was “cheating” because I was trying to see the word in my mind!!! Unbelievable!!!</p>

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<p>When I long term sub for little ones (K and 1st), I greet each one at the door with a “crown” that has their name written on it (for example: Princess Kelly or Prince John). The kids love it and it makes it easier for me to learn their names quickly.</p>

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<p><<< It is probably because of the significant impact that teachers have on our young kids (and ourselves) that prompts stronger feelings. >>></p>

<p>It’s may be because we felt so vulnerable – a small kid against an adult who knew that she could probably “get away with it.”</p>

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<p>Probably I am “stupid”.</p>

<p>I really don’t understand all this huge discussion about forgotten homework and why it’s such a big deal.
If somebody is really concerned about weird rules of one particular teacher, the easiest way to fix the problem is to look if any district policy about it exists. And if it doesn’t you go to the district board meeting (usually held once a month), explain your concern and give your suggestions what kind of rules should be accepted for homework. For example, give children 2 days to turn it in before getting in trouble. This will be the rule included in your student manual (student handbook, whatever you call it), and the problem will be over.</p>

<p>I hope nobody would suggest to bother a state representative about making a law against “stupid” teachers who make “stupid” rules about forgotten homework? :slight_smile: This way to solve the problem would be the hardest one.:-)))</p>

<p>The suggestion for “good” teachers to get rid of “bad” teachers with help of legislation… I read it 3 times to make sure that I understood everything right…
Is US still a democracy or what?:slight_smile:
If you don’t trust the principal in his/her choice of teachers, if you think you have problems with union, there are superintendants and district boards that have huge rights to change district policies before involvment of any state representative? Don’t you want as a “good” parent to try it first? </p>

<p>There are crazy parents coming to board meetings with demands like “stop using journals at ESs because teachers can spy what children write there and report to CPS”. And these weird demands are seriously discussed. :-))
If you think you have a more important concern, include it to agenda.</p>

<p>By the way, the boards are usually elected. Why couldn’t “concerned” parents try to get in and just be in charge?</p>

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<p>Ya Ya… in states that have unions, the boards are loaded with “their” candidates. It is VERY hard to defeat a union-supported candidate. For every one dollar an independant candidate raises for his campaign, the union candidate is given $100. It’s ridiculous.</p>

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<p>the school board in our district has one employee who is not elected- the superintendent.
Concerned parents are on the board- or concerned individuals anyway- not all are parents.
But they have a lot of people to keep happy and change is very slow,also since they are volunteers, they have to have an income to keep going- so they are either workaholics who never sleep, or they are married to spouses who support them and they never sleep
so in any case- the board is usually made up of professionals, whose kids lived in good neighborhoods with good schools in teh district, or they don’t have kids or they are grown.
teh board doesn’t involve themselves with decisions that are made at teh school level
Our city population is great though
with the last election a coalition funded by people like Mr Gates ( the dad) supported 3 school board candidates as a whole package.
One candidate, teh only person was running against him was an 19 yr old community college student who hadn’t attended forums
another candidate supported teh special interest group of the highly gifted population and was running against the only incumbent board member to vote against district budgets which were later found to be in the red millions of dollars, and the last candidate they supported was a decent candidate, but because she was then lumped in with the rest that this business PAC was trying to get elected, she wasn’t voted in.
THe only one who was, was the person who was running against the community college student
I am very involved and volunteer and attend meeting and participate in commitees regulary but I won’t run for board. :(</p>

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<p>I was thinking the same thing! My light-haired D enjoys telling dumb-blonde jokes. Once, someone expressed surprise that she would enjoy them. She said, “Why? I’m not a dumb blonde!”</p>

<p>I think of this thread as paralleling the “That’s Outrageous” column in Reader’s Digest, putting a public light on what would otherwise be swept under the rug. </p>

<p>I think the Elementary School stories get highlighted for a few reasons: first, as said already, kids are more impressionable. Second, kids are more helpless. And parents are more involved and protective. And perhaps more idealistic about what school should be. And finally, if we share frustrations about high school, we are more likely to get lectured or scolded by others who think this is real life, we are over-involved, yada yada yada.</p>

<p>My worst teacher ever was my 4th grade teacher. Teachers were unionized, so the school couldn’t do anything. When my mother (who is a teacher, and up to that point had NEVER sided against a teacher, and never did again to my knowledge) went to school to file a complaint, they pulled out a thick three-ring binder to add hers to it. I broke my collarbone a few days before the first day of school, and went to school with a note pinned to me that said I was not to be hit, pulled, pushed, etc. – because this teacher did those kinds of things. Everyone was afraid of him, including other teachers. He taught till he retired, and everyone in the community has stories about him. </p>

<p>My mother told me recently that, at the time, she knew I was timid and shy, and believed a situation like that would make me stronger. She has regretted ever since not pulling me out.</p>

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<p>OK - I have a good one that just happened yesterday. My first grade D is very bright - unbelievable reader (Narnia series, Secret Garden etc.), good at math, creative thinker etc. Even though she had an incredibly nice and sympathetic teacher, who tried her best to accommodate her, my D was essentially going backwards. Many times there was nothing for her to do in the class at her level. She of course helped the other kids, which she liked to do, and the teacher really tried hard to make sure she didn’t end up in that role too often. There was one other boy in her grade in the school reading at level (in a different class) so they pulled them out together twice a week for a half hour (obviously not enough). She qualified for math enrichment so she was sent home with 3 sheets since the beginning of the year (and it is that dreadful everyday math program that was discussed in another thread so no need to discuss what kind of material was covered ). She was recommended for the gifted program (which is 2x a week for 45 min. each) and tested a month or 2 ago. They use OLSAT ( they used to use WISC III). In the meantime, we pulled her out and put her in a local private school after Christmas vacation which is an enormous improvement. Her teacher was very nice about it and said she would have probably done the same thing. In any event, yesterday I received notification in the mail that she did not qualify for the gifted program and that “her educational needs can be met by the child’s classroom teacher, in the general education classroom”. Thank goodness I didn’t keep her there!!</p>

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<p>oooh, “gifted” programs - now there’s a hot-button topic for you. Though I generally think our district uses common sense and efficiency in running programs, our gifted program is a mess (and of course it’s a “curriculum enrichment” program, not a"gifted" one).</p>

<p>Two anecdotes: when my oldest was in 2nd grade, 6 kids out of the 21 in her class were taken out of class twice a week for said program, The teacher (with whom my d did not gel) announced to the students that, because there were so many excellent students in the class, different kids would be chosen for the program the following marking period. My d somehow interpreted this to mean that everyone would have a chance to go, so I asked the teacher about this at our annual conference. The teacher hesitated (obviously didn’t want to burst my bubble) before telling me that she could only send 6 each marking period and that, not only would my d not be one of the second 6 to be chosen, she wouldn’t even be one of the third group of 6, if the teacher thought she had that many gifted students (and she didn’t). Math challenged I may be, but I could see that this meant she considered my d to be one of the 3 bottom students in the class.</p>

<p>Gulp. Wow. Imagine my relief when, the following year, my d scored a 150 on the district-wide IQ test and at the 99th percentile on the Iowas. After which she had no problem being selected for the “gifted” program, which turned out to be a ludicrous waste of time (as in, and I’m not kidding, assemble a portrait of a US president using fruits and vegetables). And the problem the 2nd grade teacher had with my d - well, she had terrible printing skills and kept making her Rs and Ss backwards.</p>

<p>Several years later, my middle d could not qualify for the gifted program despite stellar grades and plenty of evidence of creativity. Why not? Well, she scored 129 on the IQ test and the minimum for inclusion in the program was 130. Hm. Not only was the IQ test never identified as such to parents (went by its official name, and I wasn’t up on the lingo), but parents were also told that standardized testing wasn’t used for placement, when obviously it was. It was useless to point out to d that the program was a joke - she wanted to be one of the “smart” kids. She managed a 131 on the next test administration (lots and lots of testing in our district) and was admitted to the program, where she made some collages and built a popsicle stick bridge (in 7th grade … oh, well). Despite her marginal giftedness, she somehow graduated 1st in her class with a bunch of scholarships, including NMS, so she apparently learned how to ace standardized testing somewhere along the way.</p>

<p>Gifted education’s not my issue - I don’t object to it, but in our case the curriculum and instructors never justified the surrounding hoopla.</p>

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<p>Here’s a story from my school days: My 2nd or 3rd grade teacher in public school had a student pick out a bible verse to read each week. I had no idea what the heck we were doing. When it was my turn, I just sat there, speechless and humiliated. </p>

<p>I never mentioned this to my parents, but if I had, I wouldn’t be surprised if my Dad sued the school district and ended up on the cover of “Time”, like that guy a couple years ago who’s daughter had to say “under God” in school.</p>

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<p>I’ve been trying SO hard to avoid this thread for fear of getting defensive. I had plenty of bad teachers in my lifetime so I try to remember those and not imagine that anybody is posting stories about me…although we all have our off days.</p>

<p>But…I wanted to throw something out there after what frazzled1 said about gifted programming. I happen to be a gifted teacher and am very much immersed in that field. The situations you described actual happen a lot because there needs to be more regulation on gifted programs. Unlike special ed that is ruled by a federal law, gifted is not. The Jacob K. Javits Gifted and Talented Education Act is all that exists and it does not mandate services or regulate them. It establishes a national research center at the University of Connecticut and allows for several large research grants a year. That’s it. Therefore, states set their own regulations.</p>

<p>In about half of the states in the U.S. gifted services are mandatory (including both in which I have taught–Mississippi and Alabama). In both states where I have taught there are explicitly outlined guidelines as to how you qualify for these programs, what should be taught, and how they should run. We are monitored by the state department. However, that leaves almost half of the states in the country where services are not mandatory and those provided are not regulated by the states. In both MS and AL (as well as many others) you are required to be certified in gifted education in addition to your original degree but in many states that’s not required. </p>

<p>That’s why you will hear a lot of “crazy” gifted stories. In Mississippi we could lose our state funding for the gifted program if we taught a child who was not identified based on state criteria.</p>

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<p>in our district gifted services are generally superior to the quality of SPED services, simply because parents of gifted children are often very involved, educated and yes demanding.
However, the identification process is lacking, it is a group administered test which of course isn’t as accurate as an individually administered evaluation. My D had an individually administered evaluation, given by the psychologist who later would begin the early entrance ( no later than 14 yrs) program of students to the university of washington. She had at that time- a stunningly high IQ, but on the group administered tests, in which you must score above average two deciles(?) in all areas to qualify. Because she also has learning disabilties, she did not. So she went to private school K-12, because they did not have any trouble teaching students who were gifted and LD as opposed to the district whose theory was to teach to the middle.
Yet the school district still complains that only public schools are obligated to take everyone which is true, yet they only can support a student if they only have weaknesses or only have strengths, not some of both.</p>

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<p>Northeastmom, I don’t if this is the same school as you, but I was watching CNN and they had a short story (with video) about a guy in Hasbrouck Heights, NJ who has been wearing skirts to school to protest a school policy not allowing shorts after Oct 1st.</p>

<p>Edit: Found a [a</a> bunch of news stories](<a href=“http://news.google.com/news?ncl=http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php%3FStoryID%3D20060125-012012-6962r&hl=en]a”>http://news.google.com/news?ncl=http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php%3FStoryID%3D20060125-012012-6962r&hl=en) about this.</p>

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<p>my D roommate wears a kilt-
<a href=“http://www.utilikilts.com/[/url]”>http://www.utilikilts.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>tanman, I am not from Hasbrook Heights, but I saw the story briefly. Same idea in our hs.</p>

<p>I am not sure, but I think the only difference is that nobody stopped the males from our hs from wearing them. It only goes on for a day or two, and then they go back to pants. This seems to happen every spring.</p>

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<p>Teach2005 <<< I’ve been trying SO hard to avoid this thread for fear of getting defensive. I had plenty of bad teachers in my lifetime so I try to remember those and not imagine that anybody is posting stories about me.>>>></p>

<p>That is the attitude to have. Even teachers can remember bad/annoying teachers that they had themselves. This thread is NOT about the numerous good teachers that can be found on every campus.</p>

<p>BINX: I love blonds who can laugh at all the dumb blond jokes (I have 2 blond kids and I have fake blond streaks).</p>