Are top private colleges still worth it at all?

College Search & Lists
1

The total cost of attendance for some private universities have exceeded $70,000 or a total of $280,000 for a 4 year undergraduate education without financial aid this year. Tech in the Silicon Valley seems to be booming while Wall Street isn’t so hot anymore- increasing the importance of what you know in comparison to what school you went to. With MOOCs online, a nearly free education is now possible. Friends of mine did the “unspeakable” this year: picked UC Berkeley over Stanford because of the in-state tuition costs.

And one of those students that “made them all”- well, he ended up turning the ivies down for a full ride at the University of Alabama:

http://www.businessinsider.com/ronald-nelson-turned-down-every-ivy-league-school-for-university-of-alabama-2015-5

What would you have done in Nelson’s position?

2

All the top colleges offer either generous merit scholarships and/or generous FA, so for many students they end up costing the same or less than in-state public.

Why is Berkeley over Stanford even remotely “unspeakable”? They are BOTH excellent schools.

3

Thats why I put the quotes. But still, the vast majority of people have historically picked Stanford:

http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Stanford&with=Berkeley

4

Stanford is a special case because it’s more entrepreneurial. I don’t remember any of the Ivies are like that. They are more focus in getting job at big financial firms. Even MIT isn’t as strong as Stanford in this area, so I can see picking Stanford over Berkeley.

5

Who cares what any of us would have done? It’s “would have” for a reason; we’re not getting accepted into all eight Ivy League schools. Let the man do what he feels best and let’s everybody stop trying to judge his decision, Jesus Christ.

6

I would have tried for big merit awards from more schools rather than apply to so many schools that give out no merit money.

7

Stanford is likely less expensive for most students who get admitted to both. The ones who would find Berkeley to be less expensive would be:

a. California residents from high income/wealth families.
b. Non-residents from very high income/wealth families.
c. Those whose financial aid situation is unfavorable in Stanford methodology (with CSS Profile) compared to Berkeley methodology (FAFSA only).
d. Those very few who get large merit scholarships at Berkeley (e.g. Drake, Stamps).

8

It depends.

I suspected that there was an economic dimension to Nelson’s situation, and a look at the article shows that there is: UA gave him a full merit scholarship, whereas the Ivies’ financial aid package was unaffordable for his family. His family would’ve had to take on significant debt for the Ivy schools, or they could send him to UA for basically nothing. It’s a difficult decision, but one that makes sense for their family.

Much has been made of MOOCs and their wonders and capabilities, but the bottom line is that no school yet offers credit for MOOCs, let alone the ability to obtain a degree through them. Plus, the vast majority of students who begin MOOCs don’t finish them. Fully online programs are not as well-respected as residential programs and don’t offer the wide range of programs that are available at residential programs. And even though “what you know” is increasingly important, having a BA is still very important - I’m job-searching now, and although I am looking in a specialized area, I am looking in tech and nearly every job I’ve looked at that pays middle-class wages requires a BA. Some of the top tech firms say that you don’t need one, but I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a Silicon Valley software engineer or UI designer who doesn’t have at least a BA.

That said, is going to a top private school worth it? Well, it depends a lot on the costs to the family and what they can absorb, as well as what the student wants. I think it is if it doesn’t leave you with financial hardship, because I have witnessed the difference. So my answer is: Were I fabulously wealthy (i.e., I could pay for a Stanford or Columbia education without it being a hardship for my family) I would absolutely encourage my child to go to a top school if they got into one. Or, if I were not fabulously wealthy and my child got a financial aid package we could afford, I would encourage them to attend a top school. In fact, I would encourage taking on a little debt ( < $30-40K) to attend a top school over taking on no debt to attend a mid-ranked school, although it would depend on the comparison (Harvard $30K vs. Georgia State $0 ? Definitely. Harvard $30K over Duke $0? No.)

But if it would be a significant financial hardship - either because my kid would have to borrow > $40K in 2015 dollars, or because I would have to borrow significant amounts that might threaten my retirement or financial stability, or because we’d have to tighten belts to an unacceptable degree - then no, it’s not worth it destabilizing the family to send them to a top school.

I think career goals matter, too. I’m saying all this assuming a tech career is what’s wanted (since you mentioned SV) but if a student wants to be a teacher, a social worker, or a nurse, those aren’t prestige-focused careers (although students do always change their minds). Maybe a top school isn’t necessary, although I’d still encourage it if we could easily afford it.

However, I don’t put choosing Berkeley over Stanford in the same boat as choosing say Cal State Northridge over Stanford or Alabama over Harvard et al. Berkeley is well-known as a powerhouse university with great placement rates and the in-state tuition over full pay at Stanford is probably a steal.

Now here’s my reasoning.

I went to a good LAC for undergrad, ranked in the top 100 but not the top 50. We got top recruiters (Google, Apple, MBB, etc.) mainly because it was a top-ranked HBCU and that’s where they seek their diversity from, and some of my classmates went onto great careers at these places and others.

But I went to graduate school at Columbia and worked with many undergrads directly. Of my undergrads who didn’t choose grad school or med school directly after college, ALL of them have fabulous jobs at top firms. Several of them went into tech and are working at top Silicon Valley firms or start-ups (like not one…several!), and not just in software engineering but in project management and marketing. Every fall the campus is positively crawling with top-level firms coming to recruit the top talent, even more so than my undergrad alma mater. But it’s not just about job outcomes; it’s about the resources and the level of student support I’ve witnessed.

And on the graduate level, I’ve seen the difference too. PhDs who decide not to go into academia have transitioned into top-level consulting and financial services firms. They come to Columbia to recruit us. I have access to career services for life. I graduated in October and I wanted feedback on a cover letter in like March, so I called up career services, made an appointment, sent someone my cover letter and got personalized feedback on what to change. For free. (Now of course, the story is I went somewhere lower-ranked for college and went to Columbia for graduate school, and still manged to have similar outcomes so far. But not everyone wants or needs grad school!)

9

@ucbalumnus, note that roughly half of Stanford’s entering class doesn’t qualify for fin aid. For those, if they are CA residents, Cal is far cheaper and if they are non-residents, Cal is a tiny bit cheaper.

10

If he’s serious about med school, then a full ride at Alabama makes more sense than full pay at an Ivy. However, chances are he could have gotten big merit scholarship offers from other selective, prestigious schools. I’m a little surprised he did not get a competitive (at least full tuition) offer from Vanderbilt … or if he did, that he’d turn it down for Alabama.

11

This isn’t terribly uncommon in our area where the honors college at our local state U is as good as any prestigious big name school. Nephew just took a full ride locally for this very reason despite the acceptances from top schools (with little or no money attached). I think the issue is harder when your local state school isn’t especially good, has no honors program and/or doesn’t offer your major. As is often stated on CC, a kid with initiative and drive will do just as well at the state school as a prestigious private and graduating without debt is a gift.

12

@puzzled123 Just wanted to say thank you for the link to parchment.com, been looking for a site like this!

13

Perhaps you should keep looking.

14

Those who do not have a bachelor’s degree typically have proven self education in whatever subject they need to be good at for the job. Self education (whether MOOC assisted or not) does require a higher level of self motivation than the more structured education one would get at a college or university, so the skilled self-educated people will be relatively uncommon compared to those who have been educated at a college or university.

However, for many careers, continuing education is necessary. In some cases, this is predominantly done as self-education, although this is not as difficult when one already knows the foundational concepts of the field (as opposed to learning the foundational concepts of the field the first time).

15

As long as your family falls in to the right income bracket, sure.

This may come as a surprise to those of you living in a big city on the eastern seaboard, but not every kid in America wants to work in top-level consulting or finance jobs. Speaking for myself, I had zero desire to go into these areas when I was in high school… they sounded quite awful. :slight_smile:

16

I don’t think it matters what any of us would have done. None of us know the details of his circumstances. It is only important that this young man’s friends and family support his carefully considered decision and that he makes the most of his college opportunity.

17

If he is truly premed then he made the right choice. I don’t see a problem.

18

Didn’t mean for this to be a critique of whether or not Nelson made the right decision but rather a discussion of whether going to a top private is still “worth it” for people today, especially those paying full price. Considering the hypothetical with Nelson is particularly interesting because it gives insight to future applicants when constructing college lists: if you get admitted to everywhere you apply to, is it really the best deal to pick Harvard, Stanford, or another top private? And if not, should you really be applying to all these schools?

It is my opinion (partially from personal experience) that too many kids go into high school working hard to chase top brand name privates- and once they get in and are on the other side, they realize that the added value of these privates is often not worth the cost (or later, when they have graduated and are in debt!). Analyzing Nelson’s decision can help students determine whether or not they should really be giving that extra arm and leg to get into what they think is their “dream” school.

19

Yes, and for a couple of lucid and cogent reasons. One, four-year graduation rates of around 96%+. Two, attrition that is largely in the single digits. Third, overall depth of class makes for a much more deep rooted intellectual experience. Fourth, endowment and FA–what you fail to either state or realize, is that relative to medium income, going to a top Ivy would in most cases be cheaper than going to your state university. By way of example, at a family income of say 80k or 20%, or 2014 median family income nationally, attending Yale, which comes out a little over 60k annually for tuition, R&B, fees, would literally cost the family nothing, yes nothing out of pocket. Given that all aid is need based, with no loans, and all grants, these are profound and appreciable distinctions.

20

I think they are well worth it for parents who can afford it and who are convinced their kids will take advantage of the opportunities provided by smaller classes, bright and ambitious peers, and more individual attention from outstanding faculty. And they are definitely worth it for kids who qualify for substantial need-based financial aid. But the benefits are harder to justify for middle-class families who do not qualify for need based aid, but who cannot afford the price tag. I would not, personally, advise anyone (student or parent) to go deeply into debt for an elite college when there are excellent alternatives that cost much less.