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Parent Cafe
1941

If they let air out of the balls after the refs checked them, then they deserve to be smacked down at bit. Talk of forfeiting is ludicrous, but they will get fined and might lose a low draft pick IMO. The penalty on the books is a $25K fine, unless somehow it is deemed to fall under the “Unfair Acts” rule:

Hard to see bleeding a few pounds of pressure as having a major impact on a game that was lost by 38 points. As a so-called “repeat” offender, I could see Belichick could get suspended.

If they delivered under-inflated balls to the refs hoping that they wouldn’t bother checking (how do we know if the refs actually checked? Maybe after checking hundreds of balls during the season they get sloppy), then that is on the refs. I doubt they will admit not doing their job though, especially during a playoff game, that will be an instant firing.

Maybe they delivered the balls at 12 psi, and the refs let it slide as “close enough” because who has time to pump up a few dozen balls, and then the temperature difference from inside to outside knocked another pound off.

Maybe Brady has bribed the ballboys to stick a needle in the balls for a second or two (which is all it would take) and the team has nothing to do with it. I haven’t seen anything written about who the people are that handle the balls during the game. It’s hard to believe they could do this on a regular basis without anyone ever noticing.

It’s aggravating to root for this team sometimes.

1942

I realized I have no idea if each team watches its own balls. In the descriptions of the process, it’s unclear. I’m done speculating about this.

1943

NRE, most of your points are addressed in the piece that I linked last night. For example, the temperature was not nearly extreme enough to account for that much pressure change. And – as the article also points out – even if it were, why did one ball remain inflated to regulation pressure while the others deflated? Makes no sense.

I agree that there’s no way this would have had an impact on the outcome, which is what makes it even more of a head-scratcher. Of course, Richard Nixon was cruising toward a landslide reelection, and there was no need to break into the Watergate, but he did it anyway. Cheaters think along those lines, I guess.

As to consequences, the league is going to have a hard time selling a slap on the wrist, like loss of a draft pick, or a less-than-draconian fine. They have been under fire all year for looking the other way and handing out inconsequential punishments.

1944

The balls were deflate before the game so well before the blowout nature was known. As it turned out it likely had a negligible impact in the outcome, but that would not have been know when the action was taken.

1945

I know I am going to get slammed, but I’d like to see Belichek kept out of the Hall of Fame. The only place to get them where it hurts is the ego. They make too much money for any fine to really hurt. I do like the idea of docking draft choices.

1946

YDS, good idea about banning him from the Hall of Fame. Brady too, if he was a co-conspirator.

1947

Not 2 pounds. But it could easily have been close to a pound. The calculation is easy. The reports were that the balls were all around 11 pounds (not 10.5 as has been reported). How accurate is the pressure gauge? How often does it get calibrated? If the Pats handed over the balls at 12 pounds and the refs led it slide as “close enough” then it’s just sloppiness.

It will be interesting to see if the full story can be extracted.

PFT reported that any discipline will be handed out in the off season, so if that is accurate it is not going to affect the SB.

1948

What about the Pat’s narrow 35-31 victory over the Ravens? Did the deflated ball trick also get implemented in that game? If so, it COULD have been the difference maker.

1949

Great point, jshain.

1950

I just love that it’s sucking up all the national media attention now and takes some spotlight off my team.

1951

The game was a blowout so deflategate probably didn’t matter in the outcome, but the Pats barely, just barely, beat the Ravens the week before and also used questionable/sneaky/cheating tactics and gained their advantage when they were using those tactics. It’s become their legacy.

ETA - sorry for the repeat, just saw jshain’s post.

1952

They should review the videos to see if the balls were deflated. :wink:

1953

Yes . . . and RE the Colts game, it’s the thought that counts.

1954

http://imgc-cn.artprintimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/86/8695/R1NU300Z/posters/david-sipress-sometimes-i-think-all-this-post-game-analysis-has-gone-too-far-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg

1955

Coach Belichick will speak at a press conference today. I hope he addresses the issue and deflates all of the scuttlebutt.

1956

Heh, I bet it will be more like “I can’t comment at this time while the League is doing their investigation.”

This has really killed some of my enthusiasm for the Super Bowl. :frowning:

It’s interesting, some of the stuff coming out now. Apparently in November, the Vikings got busted for heating up the balls during the game. Rodgers came out and said they deliberately give the refs overinflated balls to try to sneak them through. Brad Johnson paid $7500 to bribe people to scuff up the balls used in Super Bowl 37. There’s reports of qbs using a variety of substances like milk or gatorade or a variety of other substances to modify the way the balls feel.

Nobody bats an eye when it is somebody else though.

Ugh.

1957

NRE, apparently the Ravens tipped off the Colts before the game that the Pats had deflated the balls in their playoff game the previous week. Also, the Colts complained about deflated balls in their regular-season meeting with the Pats.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/01/22/ravens-reportedly-tipped-off-colts-about-possible-ball-deflation-by-patriots/

1958

I saw that. I have no doubt it’s been going on for a while.

Of course Belichick denies any knowledge in his press conference.

I got pretty close. :slight_smile:

Here’s the full transcript:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/belichick-i-had-no-knowledge-whatsoever-about-deflated-balls/

I actually hope at this point it’s Brady bribing the ball boys. Or maybe McDaniels coordinating it (see what I did there :wink: ) without Belichick’s knowledge.

1959

Edit: duplicated a number of notrichenough’s points before moving back to read earlier posts.

I don’t think this is a super big deal. It is interesting that one of the balls wasn’t deflated. That was the ball to use for field goals. It would have needed to be marked, or somehow segregated.

Madden commented someplace that this is likely on the QB, and I agree. If you’re a ball boy and Brady comes over to you and says to use a needle valve or something to take a squirt or two of air out of those balls, you aren’t likely to protest. The kicker probably has some knowledge too. They don’t want to have to try to kick under inflated footballs 40+ yards in cold weather in the playoffs.

I do wonder a bit how much of a pressure difference would ensue if you measure first indoors, and then outdoors at a much lower temperature after considerable time for adjustment. If you were at the low end of the allowed range in the indoor temperature, it seems to me likely that much colder temperatures would drop the pressure by a pound or so. Add to that the possible factor that a ref might have allowed a minor shortfall (unauthorized) and it just isn’t clear to me that this is such a big deal.

Note that the referees handle the ball all the time during the game.

1960

First, Ravens coach John Harbaugh this morning on a conference call: “It’s really not something that’s really in the forefront of my mind,” Harbaugh said when asked about allegations that his team noticed differences. “They did call some of our people about it, and as far as I know – I didn’t know exactly what the conversations were – but our guys answered honestly. We did not notice anything. We never had a ball that they were using on offense, so we don’t know anything about that in our game. We didn’t have a chance to handle any of their offensive footballs.”

Again, the reporting said the kicking balls didn’t go as far. Kicking balls are subject to special rules: they are kept in a locker that the teams can’t access because teams did play with the balls. I understand, true or not, that the NFL stopped the teams from heating the ball at a cold game in November. By that, I mean the teams were going to heat all the kicking balls together, not one team gaining an advantage.

Here’s Bill Belichick’s definitive statement in its entirety:

"All right, I’ll start off by addressing the football issue here. When I came in Monday morning, I was shocked to learn of the news reports about the footballs. I had no knowledge whatsoever of this situation whatsoever until Monday morning. I’d say I’ve learned a lot more about this process in the last three days than I know, or had talked about it, in the last 40 years that I’ve coached in this league.

“I had no knowledge of the various steps involved in the game balls and the process that happened between when they were prepared and went to the officials and went to the game. So I’ve learned a lot about that. I obviously understand that each team has the opportunity to prepare the balls they want, give them to the officials, and the game officials either approve or disapprove the balls and that really was the end of it for me. Until I learned a little bit more about this the last couple days.

“Let me just say that my personal coaching philosophy and my mentality has always been to make things as difficult as possible for players in practice. And so with regard to footballs, I’m sure that any current or past player of mine would tell you that the balls we practice with are as bad as they can be – wet, sticky, cold, slippery. However bad we can make them, I make them. And any time that players complain about the quality of footballs, I make them worse and that stops the complaining. So we never use the condition of the footballs as an excuse. We play with whatever, or kick with whatever we have to use, and that’s the way it is. That has never been a priority for me and I want the players to deal with a harder situation in practice than they’ll ever have to deal with in the game. Maybe that’s part of our whole ball-security philosophy. I’m trying to coach the team and that’s what I want to do.

“I think we all know that quarterbacks, kickers, specialists have certain preferences on footballs. They know a lot more about it than I do. They’re a lot more sensitive to it than I am. I hear them comment on it from time to time, but I can tell and they will tell you that there is never any sympathy whatsoever from me on that subject. Zero. Tom’s personal preferences on his footballs is something he can talk about in much better detail and information than I can possibly provide.

“I can tell you that in my entire coaching career, I have never talked to any player, staff member about football air pressure. That is not a subject that I have ever brought up. To me, the footballs are approved by the league and officials pregame, and we play with what’s out there. That’s the only way that I have ever thought about that.

“I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

“So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

“The National Football League is investigating this situation. We have cooperated fully, quickly and completely with every request they have made, and continue to be cooperative in any way that we can. I have no explanation for what happened, and that’s what they’re looking into.

“So I can’t comment on what they’re doing. That’s something that you should talk to them about. Again, my overall knowledge of football specifications, the overall process that happens on game day with the footballs, is very limited. I would say that during the course of the game, honestly never … it probably has happened on an incomplete pass or something … but I’ve never touched a game ball. It’s not something that I have any familiarity with on that.

“Again, I was completely and totally unaware of any of this that we’re talking about the last couple days until Monday morning. So based on what I knew Sunday night, thinking back on this, which I’ve done several times, I really can’t think of anything that I would have done differently based on what I knew then, based on what I know now. I told you the one change we’d make in the initial start level of the football pressure. But that’s really about it. It’s unfortunate that this is a story coming off two great playoff victories by our football team, our players. But again, we’ve been cooperative with the NFL investigation and will continue to do so and we will turn all our attention and focus on to the Seattle Seahawks – a very well-coached, talented, tough, competitive football team.

“We’ve spent the last four days, three days, with our preparations and so forth for the trip. I think those are coming to a conclusion. We’re wrapping that up and we’re starting our preparations today with the Seahawks and practicing through the weekend, so we’ll have a good, solid opportunity to get ourselves ready to go before we head down there.

“Again, I have no further comment on the NFL investigation and I’ve told you all I know about the subject from my perspective. So that’s where we are.”