<p>I know how you feel. My dad had been training me my whole life to go into some big-paying career because he wanted me to pay for his retirement. He never actually “said that”, but I knew that was what he was implying - especially sitting down with me at the age of ten with a list of “possible careers” for me. It about died when I went to culinary school!!!</p>
<p>Although, I get it differently from both sides. My dad is Anglo, while my mom is Hispanic. She is not too traditionally Hispanic as some of my friend’s families, but she expects me to let her move in with me when I have a family or live close by her. Traditional Hispanic homes house 3 generations all living together, which is the was she lived as a child.</p>
<p>I have to tell you that -out of respect- you should help your parents. Not financially (that is there own problem), but in other ways. Although, I agree with you about the retirement. My parents lived outside of their means and got into a lot of trouble. For the longest time my brother and I were their way out of their mess. Now they’ve separated and don’t expect as much from me.</p>
<p>But, it’s your life and you have to live with it.</p>
<p>I haven’t read any of the replies, but I have one piece of advice for them: Move to a one-bedroom apartment with rent cheaper than their monthly mortgage payment. First, they no longer need a house because it’s only the two of them (and visiting children can stay at a hotel). Second, they may make a profit on their house, which they should immediately use to pay off their credit cards. Lastly, take the difference between the mortgage and the rent and invest it in retirement accounts.</p>
<p>RE: Post # 96 - thank you dragonmom. My thoughts exactly. I attended cc before transferring and H was educated at a military academy. Graduated in the midwest in the late 70’s with a terrible job market. We were married 10 years before we started a family, both working but only able to buy a very modest house, no vacations except visiting family etc. Yes, we are comfortable now, but it took years. We are savers rather than spenders. I know many, many baby boomers who have similar stories.</p>
<p>As for expecting our kids to support us, no we don’t. We are providing ours with educations and hoping that they will be able to support themselves and their own families. Ideally we will have enough in retirement to help with our future grandchildrens’ educations.</p>
<p>I occasionally wonder how in the world some of my friends afford their lifestyles. I believe that the decade of booming home values around here made people feel rich, and contributed to a lot of spending based on home equity. I wonder what the future will bring for these families.</p>
<p>One friend bought a home at $300,000, sold it 10 years later for a nice profit at $700,000 at the height of the market, and bought a home at an above market value at the exact moment the slump started here for $1.5 million. This was during the years when appraisers around here would OK anything. They paid above market based on recent history of real estate in the area, but that home is now worth around $800,000. (Based on comps in the neighborhood). They are paying and paying and paying the huge mortgage, and huge property taxes, and huge home expenses (big home, big costs for repairs). W is a public school teacher, H is a businessman working for a company where he is making a nice, but not phenomenal salary. Homes of that size are not selling, and not for anything close to what they paid for it.</p>
<p>Another friend, now a young widow, is saddled with a huge home she and her H built using an inheritance. He did not make a lot of money, worked at a job he loved. I could never figure out how they could afford their home. She was a stay at home mom, now working at a low paying job supporting three young kids, and has been trying to sell that mansion for three years now. She is desperate ti get out from under the expenses. I don’t know how she is paying for the upkeep and taxes, let alone anything else.</p>
<p>These adults made what seemed like a reasonable gamble in real estate, assuming that trends would continue. I don’t know how they will have much of anything left to live on in retirement.</p>
<p>Not posting these examples in a judgemental way, just posting examples that have promped my own wondering how in the world friends are able to live the lifestyles they do. For a long time I wondered what we were doing wrong, not feeling like we could afford all that stuff. I realize now that we were always living below our means, as we had intended, and that a lot of big spenders are in trouble below the surface.</p>
<p>Eastcoast, I agree, it’s always wise to live below your means. I know people who believed that they earned their homes’ paper profits based on its doubling or tripling market values back in 2004 and 2005. So off they went to trips around the world, rolex watches, and expensive furniture. A couple of them went into foreclosure. In hindsight I wish I was more persuasive in advising them not to cash in on illusory income but it’s difficult to be a “killjoy” or a “party pooper” when practically everyone around you were throwing streamers and clicking glasses of Dom.</p>
<p>OP,
As a compromise and way to alleviate guilt, you could offer to hire your parents a financial planner to help them put their finances and future in order. Be sure to tell the financial planner not to factor any help from you into the plans.</p>
<p>Considering the parents refused to pay even a part of OP’s college expenses when they had the financial means to do so…he doesn’t even owe them that as far as I’m concerned. </p>
<p>If they want OP to be fully responsible for college/all other subsequent adult expenses, OP has the right to turn the argument around and say the parents are fully responsible for all of their expenses…including retirement.</p>
<p>^I’m not sure that it works that way, but I’d like it to. I am not sure if I will be in a financial position to assist my parents if they need it when they are looking to retire, and a good part of the reason for that is because I will still be paying my college related expenses that they did not assist with, and that is an incredibly heavy burden which will keep us in this tough “just starting out” phase financially for quite a few years longer than it probably would have otherwise. It will take me a long while to catch up, and by then I’ll likely have my own kids to consider. I have long since dropped the grudge on that score, but I do think the reality of the situation is that now they have made their choice… I can’t pay for everything. Keeping my own kids out of the situation I have been put in takes priority.</p>
<p>I have a good friend at work who is 40 years old, single no kids. Would have loved to have had kids but it hasn’t worked out for her. She lives in an apartment with her disabled mother. Her mother spends all her money and still asks for more, and even took out a credit card in her daughters name and destroyed her credit. My friend takes care of her mom because mom has nowhere else to go. The rest of her family is not in much better shape… my friend’s sister pretty much lets my friend raise her kids for her and blows her money on luxuries and then whines and cries that she doesn’t have money to buy her kids toothpaste. My friend is picking up the tab for pretty much her entire family at this point. She wants to buy a house, but she can’t-- her credit is trashed and she has no savings. She tells me she has $400 in her savings account. She has nothing saved for retirement, and at this point says she probably just won’t retire-- but what if she has to? I wonder who will take care of her someday, she has no kids to keep the cycle going. It’s all well and good to say that family should take care of each other rather than burden the taxpayers, that sure sounds nice, but in some cases that logic really doesn’t hold water. In my friends situation, something will have to give eventually. You can’t let some family members bad choices sink the entire ship.</p>
<p>My two cents - I don’t think it matters terribly much whether your parents paid for college. What matters more is your current situation - taking out very low/non-existent loans and parents covering the balance are almost the same, imho, unless you were forced to sacrifice Stanford for a CC or something.</p>
<p>What should lynchpin your decision is whether or not the problem is structural. If a family member’s fallen on hard times, I think it’s a filial responsibility to help out. On the other hand, if this is a recurring theme, absolutely not. I would have no qualms flatly refusing to feed anyone else’s spending addiction. Because that’s what it is - you wouldn’t give alcohol to an alcoholic, or bring an addicted gambler to Vegas. Treat doling out limitless sums to your family (or anyone!) the same way.</p>
<p>I would consider one of the credit monitoring services that notifies you when a credit app is submitted and stuff like that. Your parents might very well think they are entitled. Not that they are inherently dishonest, but really believe it can’t hurt you. They might really think they will pay it off.</p>
<p>I know how easy it is to open a card in someone else’s name and not tell them. I am GUILTY! DS got a credit app from Discover in the mail. No way in heck can he handle a credit card, he didn’t even have a job at the time. I used the online application and submitted it for him. You see, I know all his info…as your parents know yours. I did it so that i can use it once a month or so, AND PAY IT OFF IMMEDIATELY, thus helping him build credit without him even knowing it. He is way too immature for a card and I can’t believe they approved it. I suppose because it is “student” card. I have read that credit cards are hard to get under age 21, and have seen friends of my kids unable to get them, so I figure he should get one while and IF he could. Anyway, my intentions were good even though what I did IS technically wrong. (PLEASE, DON’T START ON ME ABOUT THIS, THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THAT!)</p>
<p>Also, in the event of an emergency I WOULD tell him he has it or if he ever saves up $ and wants to go away it would be good to have for emergencies. He has started working now and if he maintains this job when school starts I will consider telling him he has it. I’m just not sure he has the self-control his brother has with $. S1 has always been good with his $ from the day he got his first job and checking account. </p>
<p>I admit to this so that you can be aware of how easily it can happen. If you don’t do credit monitoring, then at least get the free report from each of the 3 agencies once a year (every 4 months)</p>
<p>You don’t owe them fun and games in retirement, though I doubt you’ll let them go homeless. Keep your salary private and play it like you don’t have a lot. If you buy a car, tell them it’s leased. If you buy a house, tell them you rent…Whine about your health insurance even if it’s not a lot!</p>
<p>And of course, get them credit counseling and/or financial advisor. Maybe get them jobs if they don’t work now!</p>
<p>When a relative commits identity fraud, you have to decide whether you would be willing to put them through the Criminal Justice system to get them to stop.</p>
<p>Re earlier advice about careful choice of spouse to avoid his/her college debt:</p>
<p>A good choice of spouse can also keep familial money-begging under control. I’m the family accountant, and any financial plea has to get past me. Which means that nothing would, and the bad money managers know it.</p>
<p>Thats the way things are in my family, but then again, parents have always paid for their children’s educations in full in my family. My dad’s parents paid when he went to medical school. My mom’s parents paid when she went to college to become an engineer. My parents have paid in full for my both my brother and I, and they are willing to pay for grad school if I decide to go. We haven’t taken any college loans out either. </p>
<p>At the cost of their kids’ education, my parents don’t have a lot saved up for retirement. However, my grandparents depend on my parents too, and everything seems to work out fine. </p>
<p>I see nothing wrong with a system like this, but if your parents don’t pay for your education then it doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>“Re earlier advice about careful choice of spouse to avoid his/her college debt:”
Lol, good 1st date questions. </p>
<p>I think Retirment/budgeting software/books/sessions will be their only christmas/birthday/mother’s day/father’s day gifts from me for the next few years ha. </p>
<p>To clear things up:</p>
<p>My parents are good people who love me and gave me a great childhood. They would never steal from me or ruin my credit. They are just really bad with money (better than many though) - although I think I’ve awoken them up to the fact that they screwed up and things have to change. </p>
<p>Although to be honest, starting to save now this late in the game, on their currrent incomes, probably won’t be enough at all to make up for all the lost years of savings, especially after you take into account all the debt they have to pay down. </p>
<p>Of course, if they end up really needing support, and I have disposble income (or not), I’ll give it to them (but I’m def not telling them this now - as it would not help motivate them), even if it means I won’t have some of the nice things they had, but only after they exhausted all their other options. </p>
<p>…hopefully, I’ll see some promotions and raises in this economy in the future.</p>
<p>“Unfortunately, ultimately SOMEONE or MANY SOMEONES have to pay for bills that indigents have run up & can’t pay. Is it fairer for state/nation/society to share those costs or have people with at least SOME blood relationship pay a larger share of those costs?”"</p>
<p>Here is the problem with this, and why the fillial laws that you are refering to are scary: </p>
<p>Indigents who can’t pay are likely to be low/middle income people. Unfortunatly, their kids are also likely to be low/middle income people. </p>
<p>I would say making the “state/nation/society” share these costs IS fairer than putting the cost on poor people and increasing the GAP between low income and high income America. </p>
<p>Blood should not make you legally responsbile for another’s debts. It is a choice not a legal responsbility to pay for someone’s, regardless of relation, medical bills.</p>
<p>I think that filial laws are more about clawbacks but I have read about some exceptions. I think that states are looking at this now and that it will be a big topic of discussion for some time.</p>
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<p>You have similar issues with child support laws. Indigents that aren’t working can’t pay child support so they get thrown in jail where they can’t work and where it costs the state money for incarceration.</p>
<p>I’m not sure whether Charles Dickens will be merely sighing…or write another book depicting the ills of what are essentially modern-day debtor prisons…</p>
<p>No, my children are not my retirement. I am rather obsessive the other way, wanting to leave them an inheritance. The thought of living small, being frugal and having my life savings go to health care in my later years petrifies me. I’m a CPA; I’ve seen it happen numerous times.</p>
<p>I think financial modeling is one of the best life skills parents can teach their children. I could not share as much as I wished when my sons were growing up because I was afraid it would be repeated in a misconstrued manner to my ex-H. Not that they are 21 and 23, I try to share as much as possible and answer all questions honestly. </p>
<p>One of my happiest joys is that they are both very good with their money and expenses. Their father and his family are the worst money managers on the face of the earth and very bad examples. Thankfully, they have followed our lead.</p>
<p>We will live close. I really hope to be a large part of my (future) grandchildrens’ life. I do not want to be a financial burden of any sort to my children, but I do hope they’ll help (not financially) if there are medical issues. I live in a rural area where generations live in close proximity and both of the above are typical.</p>