<p>
</p>
<p>Does anybody else wonder if this was a back door effort to thwart an Iranian invasion by removing Turkey from the supply line and military bases? </p>
<p>(I really have no idea what I’m talking about here - any body know links that are pertinent?)</p>
<p>"Does anybody else wonder if this was a back door effort to thwart an Iranian invasion by removing Turkey from the supply line and military bases? "</p>
<p>That’s the opinion of the right-wing blogosphere. I have no links to facts, it’s just opinion of bloggers.</p>
<p>It’s a slippery road… I have no doubt that if Germany had vast oil reserves the Bush administration would deny the holocaust if it meant not upsetting the Germans. Just how low will they sink for oil?</p>
<p>“It’s a slippery road… I have no doubt that if Germany had vast oil reserves the Bush administration would deny the holocaust if it meant not upsetting the Germans. Just how low will they sink for oil?”</p>
<p>How can this particular resolution be blamed on the Bush Administration? Also, what would you, personally, be willing to give up in order to reduce your personal reliance upon oil? What do you think the nation should sacrifice?</p>
<p>The real issue is how this resolution (if it passes) will damage U.S.-Turkish relations. State has tried to play it off as nothing important, but the reality of it is, the Turkish like to play tit-for-tat politics (you pass this resolution, we start crossing the northern Iraqi border and wreaking havoc on the one stable part of Iraq you don’t have to worry about.) Members of Congress, even in the senior leadership, are treading incredibly carefully over this. The office that I used to work for received X amount of letters on this issue, and when I tried to draft a response, the senior staff was reluctant to go anywhere beyond “Thanks for writing.” With good reason.</p>
<p>Tlaktan,
I don’t know how profound that damage to US-Turkish relations would be. Afterall, the Europeans passed similar resolutions – and Turkey still wants to get into the EU rather badly. </p>
<p>That said, the whole resolution/controversy thing mystifies me. Don’t know what the real reasons are for passing it. Don’t know what Turkey gains by its objections.</p>
<p>I really don’t know why this is being brought up now.</p>
<p>I personally believe it was genocide - but people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Why don’t we condemn our own genocide of the Native American population?</p>
<p>NorReady,
We HAVE condemned our own genocide of the Native American populations. Maybe not by a Congressional resolution (that I know of, at least) but by teaching the truth about it in schools. We don’t hide the fact that Americans in the 18th-19th century tried to decimate Native American populations. What upsets the Armenians (and many others) is that Turkey refuses to acknowlege their mass killings of Armenian civilians, women and children as genocide.</p>
<p>“I don’t know how profound that damage to US-Turkish relations would be. Afterall, the Europeans passed similar resolutions – and Turkey still wants to get into the EU rathe”</p>
<p>Thats’ the rub, WE need Turkey more than they need us. The EU can do what it wants becasue Turkey NEEDS the EU. We on the other hand want to fly over turkish airspace and want turkey not to pursue the kurd terrorists (freedom fighters= terrorists depends on your view) back into Iraq, thus destablizing northern Iraq. So an unhappy Turkey is bad for US policy right now. </p>
<p>While I don’t know why it’s an issue now, I would question the timing as it doesn’t appear critical to America’s day to day function, but it certainly po’s the turks. Could it have waited?</p>
<p>This is just one more example of the horrible leadership provided by Democrats in Congress. There is no excuse for such a stupid resolution. Turkey is one of the few moderate Muslim countries in the world. Poking a stick in Turkey’s eye at this time when we need them the most reflects incompetence.</p>
<p>Actually I agree razorship. But in many ways what you say about Turkey is (was) true about Iran too.</p>
<p>Except that Iran is not moderate.</p>
<p>^ The Iranian people certainly are.</p>
<p>I didn’t say anything about the Iranian people – I thought we were discussing the governments of Iran and Turkey and the political implications of this very foolish resolution put forth by the Democrats.</p>
<p>From the BBC:</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7049348.stm[/url]”>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7049348.stm</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s a little late, Nancy… </p>
<p><a href=“Pelosi backtracks on Armenia ‘genocide’ bill”>Pelosi backtracks on Armenia ‘genocide’ bill;
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071017/pl_afp/uspoliticsturkeyiraqbush_071017214935[/url]”>http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071017/pl_afp/uspoliticsturkeyiraqbush_071017214935</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Right. You do realize the secularists are LOSING ground in Turkey. Take a look at the controversy sparked by Abdullah Gul’s election to the Presidency, and Erdogan’s slow encroachment on civil rights.</p>
<p>By the way, we’ve already poked Turkey’s strategic eye on this – we’ve already admonished them for chasing PKK insurgents in through northern Iraq. We’ve done everything short of going down on our knees and begging for them not to do so. This is nothing new. The genocide resolution has only provided the fodder for the inevitable. Congressional leaders have known for months about the immovability of Turkey on the Kurdistan issue. If you look at several EU Human Rights cases (violations of the European Convention on Human Rights), Turkey is named as the defendant for a string of HR abuses all in the name of shutting down the PKK. Innocent civilians have been caught up in sweeps. Just goes to show what lengths this government is willing to go to eradicate this terrorist group. It’s being done rightfully so – Turkey should try to eliminate the presence of internationally-recognized terrorist groups, but this just goes to show that Erdogan and his party could care less about a few hurt feelings over Iraq in the U.S. After all, they have bigger fish to fry, even if it means the destabilization of the ONLY stable part of Iraq. </p>
<p>By the way, the other two-thirds (actually, more) of Iraq are highly volatile and unstable. Whose incompetence was that, again?</p>
<p>The bill is losing co-sponsors (there were 200+ at its peak) due to the fragility of relations with Turkey. Our relationship with Turkey is much different than the EU’s relationship with Turkey. While there is some economic benefit to a strategic partnership with the United States, Turkey knows that our success in Iraq will be mildly contingent on their beneficence. Whereas with the European Union, Turkey’s admission into that body will equal tons of economic benefits.</p>
<p>I think the Speaker is taking a great step towards complete recognition of an atrocity that has scarred an entire people. Much like the Imperial Army’s actions during WWII has no bearing on the government of Japan today, and much like the German government today holds no responsibility for what happened between 1939-1945, the government of Turkey should realize that we are not admonishing them, but actors of history who were later responsible for the creation of their present state. Unfortunately, cooler heads fail to prevail.</p>
<p>
I realize the U.S. is largely out of the Kurdish part of Iraq, but why doesn’t someone build a fence between Turkey and the norther part of Iraq? It seems to have worked in Israel to keep the Palestians out. Wouldn’t that work for Turkey?</p>
<p>
Do you think Turkey will be admitted into the EU? I suspect not, because many of the EU members are afraid of opening their borders to permit the free flow of muslims. </p>
<p>If Turkey is admitted, who gets the economic benefits – Turkey or the EU members?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>… and this wouldn’t inflame Turkey, how? Individual insurgents can hop fences. Military patrols – not so much. Do you honestly think the poor excuse of a government we have in Iraq will allow Turkey free reign in its borders?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If I recall correctly, Germany and the Netherlands had a steady flow of workers earlier on in the 1960s and 1970s to fill employment gaps. While this is being slowed by Chancellor Merkel now, it’s more of a matter of numbers (… I mean, who wants heavy unemployment in their country, be it Christians, Muslims, or Buddhists who immigrate) than of Islamo-phobia.</p>
<p>European leaders have been reluctant to offer Turkey admission based on HR abuses, and the potential for future HR abuses (Article 301, for instance). Oh, and that invasion business (cf. Cyprus).</p>
<p>And of course, Turkey will reap the benefits of EU accession, but we all know the illusion of free trade is great for everyone.</p>
<p>Can’t see how one can condemn the Armenian genocide without also condemning the Clinton genocide. About the same number of dead. (though in Clinton’s case, a larger number were children.)</p>
<p>(oh yes I can.)</p>