article in NY Times about Loren Pope

Parents Forum
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<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/28/education/28face.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/28/education/28face.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This is the man who wrote Colleges That Change Lives and has advocated looking beyond the Ivy League for years. Didn’t realize he is 96 and still going strong!</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/16784083.htm[/url]”>http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/16784083.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This is TOTALLY off the topic of Loren Pope and college admissions, but the story of him being so active at 96 reminded me of another fascinating article I read earlier this week.</p>

<p>Ruth Patrick, the one of the founders of environmental science and a truly inspirational person, is 99 and still going strong!</p>

<p>I thought some of you might be interested in reading about her - if not, just skip and continue to discuss Colleges that Change Lives :)</p>

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<p>Great story especially because since his CTCL has had such an impact on college admissions we tend to think of Mr. Pope as conventional rather than as the spunky maverick bucking convention so vividly depicted in the NYT article. </p>

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<p>not to pick on an oldtimer, but tis lovely that he wrote a book based on his gut opposition to elite lives of status and priviledge while in a house frank lloyd wright designed FOR HIM</p>

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<p>ro, noblesse oblige? - why am am I not at all surprised you picked up on that? I don’t want to pick on Mr. Pope either - obviously he has exquisite as well as unconventional tastes.</p>

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<p>Not everyone who hired Frank Lloyd Wright was wealthy: <a href=“http://www.delmars.com/flwtrip/pope1a.htm[/url]”>http://www.delmars.com/flwtrip/pope1a.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>mathmom, very true - but nonetheless $7,000 in 1939 was no small hunk of change. In any case, I do think that Loren Pope’s choice of architect speaks more to his unconventional and indomitable spirit.</p>

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<p>His books are still very popular. I ordered both CTCL and BTIL on half.com; read them, then listed them back on half.com a few months later at more than the price I paid for them. Both books sold within 24 hours of having been listed.</p>

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<p>Rorosen–I thought the same thing.</p>

<p>I have to admit, when I read it this morning, I was disappointed by his use of unbelievably broad statements and rampant stereotyping. I hope the students in CTCL schools are learning to reason better than he shows here.</p>

<p>B students ask more questions? Is that based on research or prejudice? No way to tell.</p>

<p>Students in small schools will have more interaction with profs. across the board. No exceptions. Well, except if it’s Bard, Grinnell, or F and M. I guess they’re too full of those grubby, mute A students to allow for any interaction.</p>

<p>Frankly, I was not impressed.</p>

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<p>I thought it was quite odd that he thinks it’s actively better for a college to be less selective rather than more selective–after all, college students have already been in high school.</p>

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<p>I agree that generalizations and stereotyping are typically base on biases rather than fact-like the belief that the best education is provided by highly selective colleges and universtites.</p>

<p>Hey, don’t tread on my stereotyping and generalizations!</p>

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<p>So you’d agree that Bard, Grinnell and Franklin and Marshall have deteriorated by attracting to many good students, I guess.</p>

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<p>It is ironic that making a college too well-known and popular -thereby broadening its application pool - can be cause for its removal from the CTCL list - the CTCL stamp of approval has in a most conventional way changed the college admissions landscape and continues to do so even as it is updated according to Pope’s personal view of the connection between relatively unknown small colleges and the definition of “best” education.</p>

<p>Of course, the NYT article is lauding a media man - newspaper editor, radio news editor, education columnist as well as farmer and college administrator, it is only fitting to draw attention to Loren Pope’s connection to Frank LLoyd Wright- both men shared a mission as contemporary social reformers.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.pbs.org/flw/buildings/[/url]”>http://www.pbs.org/flw/buildings/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>garland, education is not a zero sum game.</p>

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<p>Exactly!!! Which is why I was puzzled to read Pope’s comments which seem to imply that it is.</p>

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<p>for the record, I don’t believe I have any objection to the concept of an ‘elite’,…only to those who feign common-manhooddom while being an aspiring member of the select. I like the idea of an elite in its many variations. sports, brain, looks. I am certain everyone secretly does, especially when that status is earned. Wright might have thought about democracy but he was clearly a star. I don’t have anything against the children of the wealthy and powerful either. I even went into a Walmart recently. Much as i wanted to believe in everything it represents, I felt myself weakening with every passing second like Link in the fire temple before he gets his heat shield.</p>

<p>I really don’t understand the automatic resentment directed at anyone who tries to rise above the crowd. Well, maybe I do.</p>

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<p>Although my oldest attended private prep school, where many of the parents of her classmates were not only attorneys, physicians and professors, but well known & respected nationally, even internationally: attorneys, physicians and professors-( as well as musicians, scientists,writers,actors…)we did not have that background, and familarity with higher education.</p>

<p>In fact, even though we had been more than happy, with her private school education, and the advantages it had opened up for her, we ( I- since H, left everything pretty up to me), were quite overwhelmed at the thought of moving past high school.</p>

<p>While the wealth of information in bookstores, and on the web, did make researching much easier than it would have been otherwise, I attribute Loren Popes books and perspective, as the most influential force behind looking beyond large state schools, for our family.</p>

<p>As my daughter, as many other students, was first generation college, we had a narrow view of what college entailed.</p>

<p>Our perspective had been shaped by watching college sports, through movies like * Love Story * and * Animal House* :rolleyes:, and it was like helping her pack her bags, for a trip that she had planned for all her life( and where we had never been), without any idea of the climate or what she should prepare for.</p>

<p>While other parents assidously discussed rankings and connections with alumna, and although I found the information in Popes books to be a little on the hyperbole end, but still a relief, after the emphasis on “tiers” and “name” in other sources.</p>

<p>I enjoyed attending the CTCL presentation, at a local hotel one summer, although my D was actually away at her summer job.</p>

<p>It was a marked contrast, to the National College Tour, which was so full of people and paper, that I didn’t feel we connected with anyone, or received much information that we didn’t already have.</p>

<p>The CTCL program by contrast, was much smaller, and lower key, and I felt like I was able to have a real conversation about what the schools were like. Including with Mr Pope, who I had sign his latest book</p>

<p>I agree with the emphasis on lesser known colleges- Most books, mention the same schools over and over again, ignoring many schools that most people have never heard of. In our area for example, the common wisdom about Evergreen, is that it is a " hippie druggie school" ( actually that is the same thing they think about Reed :wink: )</p>

<p>I really appreciate Popes efforts to go beyond what is “common knowledge” and give lesser known schools more exposure
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<p>ek4, I enjoyed reading about your CTCL experience and Pope’s positive impact on your college search. I also enjoyed reading more about Pope’s search for the unconventional and his connection to Frank Lloyd Wright:</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.peterbeers.net/interests/flw_rt/Virginia/2005-12-17_L-Pope/index.htm[/url]”>http://www.peterbeers.net/interests/flw_rt/Virginia/2005-12-17_L-Pope/index.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Pope’s book, CTCL, had a huge influence on our college search for S #1 and it really opened our eyes to possibilities. As much as I appreciated the book’s wisdom, even I grew tired of his beating some points to death, ie the Ivy League schools are overrated, they only benefit from getting the best students and don’t do anything with those students, the graduates of his schools are just as good as ivy league grads, etc etc. You just have to take his very valuable overall message with many grains of salt. </p>

<p>However, I see no irony at all in the fact that he is…</p>

<p>“writing a book about a small house that Frank Lloyd Wright designed for him in 1940, in response to a letter from Mr. Pope, then a newspaper copy editor. The house is now a museum near Mount Vernon in suburban Virginia.”</p>

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<p>Wright’s houses do tend to leak,… but the name, the name!</p>