article on opting out of parenthood for financial reasons

Parent Cafe
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<p>When my husband and I became parents and for years after, he made not much above minimum wage salary. He just doesn’t have the education to have a skilled job. We knew that either I would shoulder the financial burden or we wouldn’t have kids. We chose the kids. I would have really (really!) liked to be at home for a while with the kids, but, again, it was either work or not have kids. We had no idea that things would work out the way they did (a true freak of fate) and that we would be in such good financial shape. In hindsight, for the kids it was probably the best possible outcome because they got the right parent for all aspects of their lives, and along the way I learned that the only thing that matters is that time passes.</p>

<p>As far as the obligation to the working mom, my personal belief is that we all have to be considerate of each other and both give and earn a helping hand from others. I don’t think support should be mandated by the government down to the micro level. I think if a co-worker has a baby, others should shut up if she is away from her desk to use the breast pump and act as good employees by pitching in to make sure the work gets done. Likewise, if the older male colleague has a terminally ill parent, then shut up if closes his door to speak to the doctor. At the same time, both should be doing their very best job for their employer and the employer should be flexible as much as the business allows. It’s all about every human being in the chain being considerate and hardworking at the same time. Neither the employer side nor the employee side should take advantage. Unfortunately, a lot of companies have had to adopt policies based on the least productive employees. My firm used to have unlimited sick days for everyone and it worked out well for a century. It was literally the egregious abuse of the policy by one single employee that caused it to be changed.</p>

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I’ll give you an example. Since the storm hit my area, my husband has worked 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, while I have been commuting between 5 and 6 hours every day because of transportation outages. The mothers of several former and current classmates of my son have called to ask if they can pick up anything at the store for us, have invited my son to a home-cooked dinner, and one of the leaders of his extracurricular activity has helped with homework. I find that incredibly supportive and am grateful.</p>

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<p>The two most insensitive comments made to me while I was a working mom, were made by men, and having known them for several years, I’m fairly certain they were not “right-wing, Bill O’Reilly” types, either. One said, “I can’t believe you would leave your child in the care of someone you hardly know.” On a separate occasion, another said, “What if she takes your baby and leaves while you are at the office?”</p>

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<p>PG: Some women aren’t really impacted by sexism. Usually this is because they were lucky enough to be born into fairly affluent families (with a fairly successful/influential patriarch) and sometimes because they are married to successful, influential men. All women are not in this situation. The lower one goes on the socioeconomic ladder, the more vulnerable women become. At least in the case white, heteronormative men and women. I wouldn’t presume to debate how race and orientation impacts this. Someone else can. However, I think my main point is valid.</p>

<p>Some women literally don’t have the ability to just “go do” It seems to me that from the beginning of feminism, upper middle class women have been telling all the other women how they should just “go do” and that is a real problem imho</p>

<p>I wonder if the women on this thread who are students discuss this idea at all in any class?</p>

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<p>What I meant is that we should be okay with what other people choose to do. My good friend is very much into social justice and many people (like in that Atlantic article) hate on women who choose to stay at home, or in other cases-hate on those who choose to focus on career over kids etc. etc. Let’s not try and make blanket statements that doing X is better than staying at home…let live and let live.</p>

<p>And if you can actually help someone and are so inclined, like poetgrl did, than that’s even better!</p>

<p>The idea of being tolerant seems pretty obvious but there are extremists on both ends who take things too far. Intolerance hurts everyone and often gives the general public a bad image of what could otherwise be points worth discussing.</p>

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<p>@Alh, we don’t ever directly discuss feminism in school, though it is discussed somewhat in the context of literature. I talk about feminism and social justice and politics with my friends, usually. </p>

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<p>Disgusting. So many double standards out there. I think if people in general spent less time tearing each other down about their individual choices, it would be easier to tackle serious issues.</p>

<p>It seriously bothers me, how feminism and equality movements are consistently mischaracterized by right-wind media. People should have choices and people should be treated equally under the law. (Rush Limbaugh?) Men’s Rights Activists who say that “Men are declining” really need to get a clue.</p>

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<p>Really a shame people can’t leave politics out of a very informative thread.
Makes me want to scream.</p>

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<p>really a shame people can’t leave women’s choices out of politics, either. Eventually, you can’t discuss this without discussing “policy” at some point.</p>

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<p>The TOS of the site are pretty clear, unfortunately, and we all have to abide by them or have the thread locked. I am very interested in others’ opinions, even within the constraints, and would like the opportunity to continue to share them.</p>

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<p>ecouter: since this thread will be shut down if we talk “politics” one way to do it is to just make allusions and generally everyone gets what you are saying. Of course, there is barely a post in this whole thread that isn’t political. Right?</p>

<p>Let’s just talk general political philosophy ;)</p>

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<p>fair enough zoos. I’m enjoying hearing everyone’s experience as well.</p>

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<p>alh: For a time I taught women’s studies before I opted out and take on only English courses. While I did, we discussed the issues you’ve raised all the time.</p>

<p>Many of my students were unmarried women of color and their lives depended on the good will of other people, employers, child care givers, their mothers, their professors.</p>

<p>They simply did not have enough of themselves to go around. Who would? And we all gave a little so they could succeed.</p>

<p>One of my students was valedictorian one year. I remember that she had a daughter with the same name as mine, so we were sisters in our esthetic taste in one way at least. I was unbelievably proud that she acknowledged me in her speech because I insisted that she apply for valedictorian (open to all with a 4.0, but there were other factors involved to choose) and supported her through the process.</p>

<p>The most insensitive comment I heard was, “At least one of these charity cases was finally worth it.”</p>

<p>Ugh. Throw up time. She did say that it takes us all to build a society. The closing line of her speech was, “Won’t you help me build brick by brick?”</p>

<p>Nobody minds the uber-rich trust fund baby who has an elite education handed to him/her, but somehow this very noble young woman is a parasite. And damned if she left her kid for school and damned if she didn’t.</p>

<p>Another student was a Cambodian refugee. She never saw her child who was cared for by her sister. She divorced her husband who insisted she be his slave (because he earned five cents more per hour than he) and worked and went to school. One of the retired police officers in our class suggested that she marry again so she could quit one of her time consuming commitments. She responded, “One I leaned. If I lean again, I’ll fall. I want to be strong for my daughter.” I’m sure she was tremendously criticized within her community for not bowing to her husband’s tyranny.</p>

<p>I feel I would love to have a powerful, rich, patriarchal figure in my life to rely on. But then again, I wouldn’t.</p>

<p>My kids dropped their dad’s name and just have mine (with is permission) so I guess I live in a matrilineal family.</p>

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My kids will never forgive me for not doing that. I had a good name and my husband’s is totally mock-worthy.</p>

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<p>Oh, trust me, I’m all about reproductive freedom and am quite aware of the threats to it right now. However, that to me is a completely different issue from “I need other women to support me / cheer me on in my personal working/SAH choices” which is what I thought was being discussed on this thread. Perhaps I misunderstood?</p>

<p>Edit - seems I missed a few turns in the conversation! I was talking about the personal, not the political.</p>

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<p>It’s not that you misunderstood the subject as don’t understand that not everyone is as assured about life as you seem to be. I think it’s wonderful that you are, but a lot of women carry around intense pain, scars and a history of rejection/negative judgments.</p>

<p>Not everyone can dismiss the judgments of others for emotional and practical reasons.</p>

<p>It’s wonderful to feel a sense of empowerment. Not everyone does. </p>

<p>I had a severely, physically abusive mother, not something one would know by seeing me in front of my classroom. (I once easily addressed a crowd of 35,000 people.) however there isn’t a moment in my life that isn’t somewhat informed by that despite all the therapy/medication I’ve tried. Medication in particular has never worked for me.</p>

<p>I don’t have a completely functional, high earning husband, and I don’t face life with nonchalant robustness. Wish I could. And I’m sure similar things are true for other women here.</p>

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<p>Mythmom - First, I’m sorry for your situation with your mother. I, too, have had bad things – some very bad things – occur in my life, some of which I am still working through; I’m no stranger to therapy, pain and scars – I don’t think anyone’s really immune, sad to say. It’s not so much that I’m “empowered” in some magical, mystical way - it’s just that I’m not sure how that support manifests itself in a way that’s meaningful. In other words, whether the woman down the street thinks, “Wow, PG, you’re such a terrific working mother role model, you go girl!” or “Gosh, PG, you shouldn’t have had kids if you were going to work, you should have gotten a cat” – either way, I’ve got to get up, do my thing, care for my home and my family – and her judgment just isn’t impacting how easy or hard it is for me to get those things done in the course of my day. Her opinion doesn’t cook my dinner for me or get my kids to soccer practice or pay my bills.</p>

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<p>I guess I feel that if you can sit down and break it all down and analyze it into black and white, then yes, parenting probably is not for you. Either you really want kids or not. There is nothing wrong with following your heart, whichever way it takes you.
I mean, seriously, did any of you juggle the numbers when deciding to start a family. Or did you do it with stars in your eyes and love in your heart and desire to touch the future?</p>

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<p>alh, that sounds good.</p>

<p>I, personally, meant that we always should be supportive of one another in the political sense and that if someone can help someone further (and if they want to), then they should. </p>

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<p>My parents have/had the same last name, prior to getting married (they weren’t related), so no choice on this end :(</p>

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<p>I do wish my mom would have given me her last name instead of my dad’s (my dad’s is one of the most common in the US and my mom’s…well, we’ve never met or heard of anyone outside our family with her maiden name). </p>

<p>However, she wanted my first name more, and with her last name, my first letter of my first name would be K, my first letter of my last name would be K, and the last letter would be K. The way I say my name, it would sound like KKK if said quickly and she thought I wouldn’t forgive her for that. </p>

<p>I see her point. </p>

<p>Va, I think many people do juggle the numbers when they start a family. Maybe that’s a recent development. I know that I was a whoops, but they made the calculated decision to not have any more after me because they knew they couldn’t afford it. While I regret not having siblings (my half sister has never really been a part of my life), I do understand why they did what they did and I appreciate it. Things were tight enough for us and I’m forever grateful that they had that foresight. As selfish as it sounds, being an only let me do things that I probably wouldn’t have been otherwise able to do (dance, sports, etc) and would have negatively impacted my life (I am a firm believer that sports and dance helped shape me in to the person I am today and wouldn’t trade those experiences for the world).</p>

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Unless it does. During this difficult time, the kindness of friends, colleagues and even acquaintances has meant a lot. In some ways I can say it’s been a lifeline. Even in my professional life I have been both a mentor and a mentee, and have benefited from the kindness of other women. I hope I have paid that forward. My choices wouldn’t have been different, but I do think we can add grace and kindness to each other’s lives in a way that men often don’t.</p>