Article says 15-year old girl driven to suicide by bullying

Parent Cafe
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<p>I cannot believe that the charges are against underage kids, but the adults-in-charge have no real consequences?!! This really needs to stop. When there is a report about bullying, or it is witnessed, there needs to be immediate action taken. If school officials fail to protect children when they have been given a heads-up, that is serious negligence. I really don’t want to hear about the school’s “policies”, and how they were applied this or that way in this matter. Give me a break.</p>

<p>The kids should have been expelled long before it got to this point. Like at the first sign of bullying. Especially with a new student! You watch those kids more closely. That this kid died is such a tragedy, but the fact that the lazy bureaucrats are getting off easy makes me sick.</p>

82

<p>The DA made the decision that there was no criminal conduct. However, she also went out of her to make it clear that the principal had lied through his teeth. (He had issued a statement saying that he and the faculty had no idea of what was going on; the DA said in her statement that what was going on was known to most of the student body and faculty.) </p>

<p>The school had begun disciplinary hearings against some of the students. The students avoided them by transferring to other high schools. That insured that there would be no disciplinary record when they applied to colleges–and apparently that’s the way the school intentionally set it up. One of the girls charged was suspended for calling Phoebe some name a month before Phoebe’s death, according to her mother–who seems to be in total denial. </p>

<p>What was mind-boggling to me was that AT LEAST 3 other girls had transferred out of South Hadley because of bullying. One of the charges relates to the bullying of that other girl. Her parents must be be so grateful that they decided to get her out of the high school. The girl who allegedly assaulted her–one of the juveniles–is ALSO one of the girls who bullied Phoebe. </p>

<p>To me, that makes the moral case against the adults that much worse. Phoebe wasn’t the first girl these kids had done this to. They had succeeded in driving other students out of the high school and no action had been taken. So, they targeted another girl–and this one broke.</p>

83

<p>I do agree about the teachers/admins… D was bullied, in front of teachers–I spoke to the principal who wouldn’t do anything unless D pressed a formal charge (which would have subjected her to further bullying). She switched classes, learned to keep away from the bullies and they found new marks. All this in a very good school with many excellent teachers. But the old way of thinking continues: “kids will be kids, you have to learn to deal with this kind of thing,” etc. D is fine now, but she wasn’t a new kid from another country. It’s just sickening that teachers aren’t on the alert and ready to deal with it—what kind of an example do they set when they ignore it?</p>

84

<p>This is all so heartbreaking. But even if the kids involved are punished, nothing will change for the better until a zero tolerance policy for bullying is adopted and enforced by that school, and the culture of bullying is stamped out. </p>

<p>I honestly believe that it is possible to effect that kind of change in a school’s culture from the top down, “mean girls will be mean girls”-type platitudes notwithstanding.</p>

<p>Now that neither I nor my son nor my former spouse lives there anymore, I don’t see any reason not to say that we used to live in Glen Ridge, New Jersey, and that my son grew up there and graduated from the high school. We moved to the town in 1987, and my son was born in 1990. From what we heard after we got there and read in the town paper, the school system (especially the high school) had a reputation for being not particularly academic in emphasis (I don’t think <em>anyone</em> went to what would be considered a really good college on CC), and for bullying being widespread. (Not that I’m suggesting that the two are necessarily connected.) And for student drinking, and loud parties when parents were away, and so on.</p>

<p>I had lots of trepidation about how our hoped-for future child would fare, and about whether moving to that town had been the right decision. (I can remember saying things to my former spouse like “see, this is what happens when you decide to move to a town with no Jews!” Not that I was being entirely serious.)</p>

<p>And then in 1989, a year before J. was born, this happened: [Glen</a> Ridge Rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Ridge_Rape]Glen”>Glen Ridge rape - Wikipedia).</p>

<p>The article doesn’t even begin to capture the horrible nature of what happened, and of the long history of anti-social behavior by those involved.</p>

<p>Even before the book about the incident came out, we heard all sorts of things about the blaming of the victim by people in the school administration, and the protection of the culprits because they were “our guys,” and because several of them were prominent athletes. It was horrifying. </p>

<p>But within a few years, even before J. started in the school system in kindergarten, the school administration had changed almost completely, and bullying stopped being tolerated, and there was much more of an emphasis on academics.</p>

<p>And despite always being little, and being “different” in a number of ways well before he came out as gay when he was in 8th grade, my son was never bullied. At all. No name-calling, no being beaten up, no head flushed in the toilet, no being stuffed in a garbage can – all of which happened all the time even in the high school I went to back in the early '70’s, much of it to me.</p>

<p>Not that life was perfect for him in that town or that school by any means. There are other issues that I won’t even go into. He’s infinitely happier in college, and doesn’t miss living in Glen Ridge. But at least I didn’t have to worry about his safety, or worry that he was going to be tormented. And from what he told me, it was true in general that there was hardly any of the type of behavior anymore that had gone on before the 1990’s, and which he had heard stories about (both from reading the book, and from talking to teachers who had been there back then). Kids knew that it wasn’t tolerated.</p>

<p>And by the time he graduated, the school was consistently being rated among the top 5 or 6 public high schools in New Jersey, and a large portion of the class went to excellent schools, with probably 20% or so going to so-called top 15 schools. (Of course, the way I look at it, my son and his classmates should get at least as much credit for that as the school itself!)</p>

<p>I understand that the demographics of South Hadley are very different from those of Glen Ridge. But at least Glen Ridge proves that a long-ingrained culture of bullying can be changed.</p>

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<p>news article about the bullies’ facebook page “We Murdered Phoebe Prince.”
***** They had that facebook page??!!?? That is beyond sick. I truly hope those bullies get some type of punishment that will make a difference in their sad, pathetic lives. </p>

<p>I cannot imagine the incredible heartache the victim’s family has lived with through all of this.</p>

86

<p>Bullying in schools is all too common. The administration has to set the tone and follow through. It’s tolerated all too often, everywhere from very young and has serious consequences, like this tragedy!</p>

87

<p>jonri—I appreciate the link to the view from Ireland…made me even sadder to imagine this family chose to move here to experience life in America. what does this say about our country. here’s a link from the same publication today [Nine</a> students charged over suicide of tragic Irish teenager - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie](<a href=“http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nine-students-charged-over-suicide-of-tragic-irish-teenager-2116877.html]Nine”>http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nine-students-charged-over-suicide-of-tragic-irish-teenager-2116877.html)</p>

<p>how can these kids behave so cruelly? how?</p>

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<p>This whole story was sickening from start to finish. The abdication of any pretense of moral authority on the part of the school, plus the pure evil - there’s no other word for it, really - of teenagers who did what these did to that poor, poor child, then bragged about it later. </p>

<p>Some of the kids you’ve told stories about have felt terrible about it in retrospect, and apologized as adults. I just can’t see any remorse from these kids in Massachusetts. </p>

<p>I look around me in the corporate world. Some of the people were the bullied, some may have bullied but felt bad at the time, or later. Most probably not involved one way or the other. </p>

<p>But I remember a business function some years ago. I was the only female invited. The host/president of the company with the microphone picked on me - one of his company’s invited guests - and tried to humiliate me in front of the entire audience of around 200 people, for the sake of getting laughs out of the audience. This went on for about an hour. Then the senior guy from our firm called the guy over, smiled broadly, and informed him that if he wanted to continue any association with our firm, he might think about finding some other kind of humor. All right into the microphone. </p>

<p>It was great. The only thing that was better was when the president of that firm got indicted a couple of years later, and went to jail.</p>

<p>I’m betting he was a bully in school. In retrospect, I wonder how many young kids’ lives he ruined in high school.</p>

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<p>What I am most encouraged by here (though I am heartbroken for this girl and her family) is that the police and DA are criminalizing the bullying. I know the school was wrong, but I also believe that unless this is criminalized the way that fistfights between boys have now become cases legal assualt, whereas they used to just be fistfights, it leaves too much gray area and makes it too easy to act as if it’s hard to spot.</p>

<p>We all know bullying when we see it. Making it a crime will put an end to it faster than any other action. Good for the police and DA.</p>

90

<p>you’re right poetgrl…criminalizing the bullying is the way to hopefully deter. </p>

<p>it is distressing that the principal lied, and that the staff watched bullying and did nothing. I sure hope the superintendant takes action against them from an employment perspective. When he was questioned he advised being patient, one can only hope that action is pending. </p>

<p>I recently reported an assistant principal for making an offensive and inappropriate comment to my 13 yr old, don’t ya know the principal said since the ap denied it he would side with the ap, after all my child is well, you know, a child. I told him the ap knows that is his policy so there is no incentive to be truthful. And I told her when she claimed, I don’t remember saying that, that we know what that means, it means one is avoiding consequences, not that they are demonstrating integrity. different issue, but we sadly see administration cover their own bad behavior.</p>

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<p>Yes, we frequently, sadly see administrations cover thier own bad behavior. But, I think that used to be the case with boy’s physical fights until parents began to go to the police and file assault charges. It forces an action. It creates legal oversight and protection. So, it’s a good thing if this bullying can be criminalized. It has been a “girls will be girls” thing now for far too long. People used to think nothing could be done about boys and fighting, too. Things can be done, even if it is too late for this young woman and, obviously, many others.</p>

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<p>Some of the adults who should be setting an example are bullies themselves. Not all, of course. There are tons of great people who are deans, etc. but in some schools they pick the toughest types to be the deans, etc. Last week, my son, who doesn’t have a problem being bullied by kids or any problem with authorities, was bullied by a dean at his school. The behavior of said dean was appalling and I believe was influenced by the fact he had just been treated badly by a group of “mean boys.” Some kids at high schools treat adults terribly and make them cynical and defensive. Some kids make up lies and try to get adults fired (e.g. accusing an adult of touching them who didn’t, etc.) Still and all, these people are examples and when they resort to bullying, it makes things worse and sanctions that kind of behavior. I don’t think there is nearly enough training for the people in the trenches on how to effectively discipline while setting a good example.</p>

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<p>Growing up and dealing with pressure&abuse in high school is apart of life. If one cannot even withstand bullying in a school environment, one will probably be crushed by the time one gets into our modern super cutter-throat society. While is may sound heartless, I firmly believe that dealing with stress with an important skill in life, after all, one cannot expect society/government to eliminate all the threats for you. Bullying is somewhat natural, although harmful for most, as the differentiation of culture/traits causes anxiety in most groups of teenagers. Not to mention the idea of “criminalize bullying” is just preposterous, for there is no practical way to enforce it. In addition, even if the laws are passed, many would attempt to abuse the system for their own gains. Overall, it is indeed a terrible event to see a seemingly promising 15 year old girl to commit suicide, her sacrifices had taught us a lesson, for that the only person one can truly depend on in today’s world is oneself. True strength and motivation comes from nowhere but from one oneself.</p>

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<p>^ Hmm. R u a parent? Not that I disagree ( at least with regard to that idea that bullying is not the “cause” of suicide). Just wondering…</p>

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<p>My D was bullied in middle school and it was tacitly condoned by her gym teacher. I think it’s no accident that the bullies in this incident (as in my D’s) were good athletes. Not to condemn all athletes, but there is something in the culture, encouraged by adults, that is not healthy. </p>

<p>As for the cause of bullying, I know people (close relatives) who have a mean streak a mile wide. They were born that way. We all know people like that, I bet. Of course I know people who are congenitally sweet as can be. But, I bet there is a bullying gene. Seriously.</p>

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<p>Why does it have to be a gene? If you bully someone, get what you want, and get away with it, why would you ever stop? That’s like saying there’s a “gene” for stealing or a “gene” for laziness. Maybe there are people who are predisposed to behave one way or another, but to chalk it up to genetics just gives people a free pass to do whatever they feel like without regard for the consequences. Kind of “girls will be girls” thing with a very thin veneer of science jargon.</p>

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<p>^^^I didn’t say or imply any of that. I was making an observation, my own, purely anecdotal one, that people are born with temperaments and some of those temperaments are…sometimes mean. I was being a bit facetious in saying that there might be a bullying gene, but clearly, nature (as well as nurture) plays into this. Dogs are born with temperaments along the dominant/submissive scale, so are people. I bet most bullies are “alpha” types but unfortunately, that energy has become misdirected.</p>

<p>I think the teachers at that schoolwho knew of the bullying but did nothing should be fired.</p>

98

<p>It’s my impression that No Child Left Behind issues contribute to tolerance of bullying and other antisocial behavior. Our dropout rates are already so high that there is real reluctance to suspend or expel a student any more.</p>

<p>Without knowing all the particulars of this case, I could see a faculty member instructing the bullying students to knock it off, or even briefly suspending a student or two, and it having no real impact on the bullying behavior.</p>

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<p>zala–don’t agree—many corporate workplaces have policies against this kind of behavior and I personally have seen employees fired for much less severe bullying behaviors. so what you are saying about a middle or high school student having to toughen up since the rest of their life will be more of the same is a sad commentary and not my life experience at all. Nor should it be an accepted behavior in any of our schools.</p>

100

<p>

As we move along the sliding scale that has nice on one end, and murder at the other, bullying behavior at some point will become assault. I believe that in this instance, the behavior exhibited by the “mean girls & boys” has definitely entered the criminal.</p>

<p>

Dealing with stress is indeed an important life skill, however, dealing with intimidation, stalking, and rape is not something we should tell a 15 year old to “just deal” with.</p>