Article says 15-year old girl driven to suicide by bullying

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’m trying to remember back to what used to be (still is?) said to parents of toddlers who haven’t learned civilized behavior yet – hitting or shoving other toddlers. The advice was to give all the attention to the victim, and then the attacking toddler would not like the lack of attention. Their negative behavior would not be rewarded with attention. Anyone else remember this? Of course high schoolers are teenagers, but in some ways they still act like toddlers…</p>

<p>What I keep thinking is that this isn’t the first time bullies have caused a suicide. And it unfortunately won’t be the last. There has to be a national transformation in attitudes.</p>

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<p>Hate to say it but I agree</p>

<p>I believe teachers saw it, but felt they would not be supported by him when they wanted to give punishment.</p>

<p>It is on record that the Prince family met with the school administration. Maybe they met with the VP or GC, but either way the administration did not bring it to the higher level, which begs the question why?</p>

<p>Did they not bring it to the principal because they felt they could handle it? If so where was his involvement with them? Did they not bring it to him because they feared he would not support them in punishment?</p>

<p>A child is dead, in all reports the parents tried everything to protect, even approaching the school shortly after moving into the district. They were tuned in. The school failed. I don’t blame the teachers because I do agree as a hs teacher with 200 students and you see it happening they tie their hands by saying no. The parents approached the school and the administration should have pulled in the teachers. The teachers would have said, I thought/felt I saw something, but the student said no. That would have thrown up a flag. A good principal would have said “keep an eye” on them, and keep me updated.</p>

<p>I recall when I started back yrs ago and wanted to go HS. I worked as a sub for a week. There was a fire drill 20 minutes before the end of the day, it was a Friday, by the time we got back in the class room the bell rang. 1 student walked off with a calculator and I was called by the principal Monday and reemed.</p>

<p>Never mind the fact that many of the kids never returned after the unplanned fire alarm, and I had managed to re-take attendance to leave the teacher a note of kids that skipped…it was more important the fact that I did not collect every calculator from the 30 kids in the class. I was so infuriated I left and returned 1 hr later with a brand new TI to replace it. The principal was shocked, but better yet he sheepishly stated that the student who took it home by accident returned the calculator!</p>

<p>This principal and teacher cared more about the books/equipment than the kids. I never taught there again.</p>

<p>The teacher who was great friends with the principal was having a grand old time n NYC, yet her teaching plan was 130 geometry problems for a 90 minute class, and if not completed the rest was hw. Tell me how many of you can do 130 proofs in 90 minutes? Not saying that she shouldn’t have assigned classwork, but 130 was extreme.</p>

<p>CTTG,</p>

<p>Yes, we raised our children that way regarding toddlers. We were also parents so fearful that our youngest due to his size would have to fight the Bully image is he shoved or pushed. (He is now 6’2 and only 15).</p>

<p>However, as Bullet and I stressed to our DS2 he was bigger and to be aware of that fact when playing with others, we had a co-worker who took pride that their DS was kicked out of Pre-K. YES, PROUD! At social functions they would laugh or brag about the fact that their 3 yo took no crap from other kids. I remember the Mom laughing as she said to me and others, the school contacted her and dis-enrolled him because he bit a child. She thought the school was wrong because they didn’t understand kids. My friends and I thought, HMM, can we say JUVIE? They thought it was great he was so strong and independent, they never thought that his behavior was abnormal. </p>

<p>As I have stated I worked in the educational field for 5 yrs. I can tell you that there is a running joke in the elementary level, we can tell very quickly the route these kids are on. Unfortunately, it is usually because of the parent that placed them on their path, and rarely are elementary teachers wrong.</p>

<p>Smaller the child…smaller the problem. Bigger the child…bigger the problem.</p>

<p>Saddest day in my life was when I taught 1st grade. A child who was a bully (tripped kids with lunch trays), was brought in because his sister in K had her head beaten up against the interior side of the bus by a Bully. The Bully was her brother and her Mom even after viewing the videotape from the bus, defended him by saying she must have provoked it! He took her head and slammed it incessantly for about 2-3 minutes. Due to his behavioral issues he was required to sit in the front seat, and it took that long to get the bus off the road safely.</p>

<p>Sadder yet, we could not get the county to remove the DD because of parental rights and no previous medical issues. They saw the video, but it was not enough.</p>

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<p>Nope, Bulletandpima, the super did NOT throw the principal under the bus. He said NOBODY TOLD THE PRINCIPAL. The mother did not tell the school and Phoebe didn’t tell anyone and the bullying isn’t why she killed herself. </p>

<p>From the Boston Globe:</p>

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<p>This just gets worse and worse. Good grief!!!</p>

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<p>I only heard the clip from MSNBC which only had his clip.</p>

<p>I agree that it is getting worse…GC’s at least in our area are not teachers working up the line, they are pseudo psychologists. They are the front line to determine if a child needs additional help, be it academically or emotionally.</p>

<p>Curious about the school nurse.</p>

<p>The parents just moved from Ireland, I wonder if they thought that it was a Bullying issue and trying to approach it from a psychological matter. If so, and the school knew this it makes them even more culpable. </p>

<p>I am betting the school poo-poo her because they though it was an adjustment issue to a new country and school. They ignored the Mom who knew it was more than that.</p>

<p>The principal can be given a reprieve to a pt, but at the end of the day, he will be asked why didn’t you know if 2 of your direct staff did? Every school has weekly staff meetings, it will be asked how did this never come to light? The BOE can not defend to parents that this is acceptable behavior for a principal. They will cut him loose. The pressure is too heavy on the Board, their only option is to throw him under the bus.</p>

<p>FWIW Scheibel’s comments make me want to live in his school district because the following was not only foul, disgusting, and rude, but vile. I want to just to demand his resignation!

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<p>MAN UP…the school had a HAND in this! Don’t DIVERT and blame else where, acknowledge that schools have our children for more waking hours than parents do. Acknowledge that you want parents to be your partner in education, so you need to be our partner too!</p>

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<p>hmm…the conversations were not relayed to the principal??</p>

<p>I sure hope the gc doesn’t give any private info about this girl or her family for them to use against her as a another “cause” of her suicide.</p>

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<p>Just one correction–Scheibel is the good “guy” here; she’s the DA. Sayer is the super.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I cannot believe how many times I have been disgusted by the behavior of adults in authority, looking the other way. I have seen highly intelligent mothers - successful, educated people - pretend that they do not see their daughter’s “mean girl” behavior when it occurs right in front of them! I have seen mothers discredit the victim, malign her reputation, even speak to teachers, camp counselors, and church group leaders all to advocate on her mean girl daughter’s behalf. You can’t write this stuff. I have seen elementary school teachers who clearly prefer the attractive, well-groomed mean-girl or mean-boy prototype, and almost enjoy watching the struggles of the kids who are being abused. </p>

<p>It’s a sick world that we live in.</p>

<p>I know bullying can happen at public or private schools, and while I know this is not the forum for a political debate, my experience is that at least with private schools you have choices. You can move to another. Kids get kicked out much more quickly (so do teachers and administrators). It’s usually smaller, so the kids are SEEN more. Everyone deserves choice when it comes to education. There are amazing public school teachers, but I think the whole tenure/teacher’s union set-up is evil. Everyone deserves the chance to have a voucher and to say “so long!” when schools are not functioning properly.</p>

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<p>Didn’t the news report indicate that reportedly several other kids had transferred out of the school because of similar bullying by this clique? Apparently their activities were well known in the school community. I really wonder how likely it is that the administration had NO idea what was going on. Or were they just turning a blind eye because dealing with it–especially when it involved the football star in a blue collar town–was too difficult?</p>

<p>Our school system started anti-bullying programs in elementary school. I know that it doesn’t prevent it completely, but it does help.</p>

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<p>Just once I wish we could hear the responsible parties in one of these tragedies say “We are devastated by the events that have transpired. Some bad things happened on our watch and we will not rest until we know that every single student in our school experiences school as a safe environment. There may have been larger societal forces at work, but we will not be satisfied until the part that we can control, the world within the walls of the school building, is such that never again will a student be demeaned, threatened or afraid to come and learn. We are human, too, and we hurt over the death of this student. We are committing ourselves to this mission here today. We understand that we can and we must fulfill this mission.”</p>

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<p>I hated mean girls in elementary school, middle school and high school.</p>

<p>They grow up to be mean girls as adults, I have found.</p>

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<p>I wondered this too. Did the school turn a blinds eye because he was the JOCK. The statutory rape charge still makes me question if there is more fallout.</p>

<p>Statutory rape to me, means under age sex, why charge him if she is dead and can’t testify unless they are using the charge as leverage so he will turn against the others and make their case stronger.</p>

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<p>It was a pretty small school- 700 students for a high school is tiny these days.
If you are experienced enough to be a principal/superintendent, you should be familiar with child development & proactive in implementing programs like Safe Schools, which our district has been part of for years.
[National</a> Alliance for Safe Schools - Home](<a href=“safeschools.org - This website is for sale! - safeschools Resources and Information.”>safeschools.org - This website is for sale! - safeschools Resources and Information.)</p>

<p>My younger D attended an inner city school of 1600, ( which still isn’t that big- compared to some areas) and that principal * knows* what is going on.
He has his hands full dealing with all the different factions of the school, but responds quickly to calls and emails ( within a day in my experience) & attends meetings, inc community meetings and sporting events regularly.
With a smile on his face no less.
[A</a> flamboyant leader of a Seattle street gang faces federal scrutiny](<a href=“http://www.seattlepi.com/local/395009_sanford07.html]A”>http://www.seattlepi.com/local/395009_sanford07.html)
[Local</a> News | Garfield High principal wins outstanding leadership award | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011353728_principalaward16m.html]Local”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011353728_principalaward16m.html)</p>

<p>Isn’t adolescence hellish enough at times as it is without being bullied?</p>

<p>Most of the people I associate with now I really doubt were part of the " in crowd" in high school. They were music geeks, art geeks, or just plain " geeks". ( I was a * organic* geek)
But now they are successful, funny & engaged in their communities and pretty good people, better company than those who often peaked when they were 17, and tried to coast on those laurels forever after.</p>

<p>Even Eddie Vedder- rock god that he is now :D, was known as * weird Eddie* because he was so reclusive, when he wasn’t working at the gas station, spent his time surfing.</p>

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<p>Possibly, but from reading multiple articles about this situation, it seems that there was a culture of bullying at this school that goes back generations. I believe the reason it was tolerated here was because the sentiments expressed in post #93 on this thread are pervasive there and elsewhere. In reading comments to the many news articles, I was glad to read that the majority of posters were horrified by the actions of the students and the inaction of parents and administrators, but a good number of people posted comments very reminiscent of post #93 on our very own CC:</p>

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<p>Few months ago 9 y/o boy called my 9 y/o d a whore on the playground, 2 other boys joined in. My 12 yo son told me. When I asked my d about it, she said they do it all the time, since September(this was about 3 months ago) she asked me what it meant, I did not tell her but did tell her it was not a word anyone should use and not to say it or speak to these boys ever again. Been down the road of contacting the school, principal etc with my oldest d when this crap occurs and we got the blame the victim counseling nonsense. I wasnt going down that road again, I went up to school at the time of dismissal, pulled the mother of the boy(one of the most popular boys) over and asked her to get her son, in front of him, I told her exactly what her son said, how often and when he said it, I clearly said I would want to know if my son was saying this to other children and would she please ask her son to never speak or look at my daughter EVER again. I looked him in the eye and said never ever speak to my daughter EVER again. </p>

<p>Of course he was caught off guard, clearly guilty, as any parent KNOWS when their child is lying, his mother turned and said Not my son, I said well Mrs. so and so(teacher) heard it and already spoke to him so you can ask her if what I say is true or not. She was speechless. It stopped.</p>

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<p>Phoebe Prince’s death is tragic. I believe the bullies must have made her life a living hell, and they should be punished and held accountable. But I’m uncomfortable with demonizing children, any children, and the righteous calls for zero tolerance. I think that it’s quite possible that even active, involved school administrators can often be clueless as to the extent of manipulative, bullying behavior right under their noses. It’s certainly true that many parents don’t know their own children that well. Children learn very early on how to behave around adults, how to make the right impression. That impression often has nothing to do with reality.</p>

<p>Bullying children exist because there are bullying adults. Bullying can be subtle. I’ve seen lots of bullying on the toddler playground and guess what? It was perpetuated by the parents. I’ve seen and heard a lot of righteous anger about what someone else’s kid did to their little angel, and a lot of it sounds pretty close to judging, intolerance, and scapegoating – all bullying by another name.</p>

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<p>Mousegray, you make some valid points.</p>

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<p>“Righteous call for zero tolerance” here.</p>

<p>Frankly, I don’t care what unfortunate familial or cultural phenomena lead Phoebe Prince’s tormentors to behave as they did except insofar as understanding such things might help us to intervene and prevent such behavior in future. And I don’t think that holding the bullies – and the school system that knew what they were doing to a classmate and didn’t make reasonable efforts to stop them – responsible for what they did is tantamount to demonizing them. </p>

<p>I suspect that if potential bullies know from the moment they enter school that certain behavior will not be tolerated, we’ll see a lot less of the behavior, and a lot fewer Phoebe Princes. I suspect that if administrators know that unless they have a viable plan to intervene and prevent bullying, their jobs are on the line, we’ll see fewer Phoebe Princes. I don’t care if the bullies or administrators who tolerated them are confused/insecture/unhappy/watch terrible television/are unduly influenced by vile video games/have drinking problems and bad mothers – the kind of bullying experienced by Phoebe Prince is intolerable. It is not typical of the stress children are supposed to learn to deal with in later life. It is not typical of what any human being should be expected to put up with. It is not some cute varient of mean-girl exclusion. It is legally actionable bad behavior that should have been stopped sooner. Period.</p>

<p>The notion that people who condemn bullying are somehow bullies themselves, and that seeking consequences for children who make other children’s lives miserable through over the top bullying is somehow subtle “bullying by another name” seems to me counterproductive. Using that reasoning, I would be a bully for posting this post.</p>

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<p>^^^^Very well said.</p>

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<p>the school has had a history of problems with bullying and one girl (who had also been bullied), reported the “hazing” after Prince’s suicide and was “slammed against a wall and hit by one 0f the accused girls, said her father.”</p>

<p>this is assault, plain and simple. </p>

<p>from the NYT article [Questions</a> for School on Bullying and a Suicide - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/us/02bully.html?pagewanted=2&fta=y]Questions”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/us/02bully.html?pagewanted=2&fta=y)</p>

<p>But school district officials noted that last fall, out of concern after the suicide of a boy in Springfield, Mass., they brought a leading consultant, Barbara Coloroso, to give a seminar about prevention and reporting of bullying.</p>

<p>Ms. Coloroso rushed back to South Hadley after Ms. Prince’s death. She said in an interview this week that the high school had not fully carried out her recommendations to ensure reporting of any potential bullying and to involve parents early on.</p>

<p>“This was a horrible wake-up call,” she said.</p>

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<p>Anderson Cooper had the super, Gus Sayer, on last night. Did anyone else see it? Among other things when asked about the fact that he had previously claimed that most of the bullying was outside of school on cyberspace–a statement Sayer made to the Boston Globe AND in a letter to parents sent home after Prince’s death–Sayer actually said “I don’t recall saying that.” The whole interview was just plain mind boggling. </p>

<p>But on a positive note, part of the Mass anti-bullying bill was the establishment of a “hot line” for reporting school bullying. Yesterday, it was flooded with calls. Most related to Charlestown HS. Apparently, a group of boys had made facebook pages which contained very graphic and vulgar comments about some of the girls in their classes. Some of the girls tried to retaliate by making equally vulgar pages about the boys who did this. Numerous callers reported what was going on to the hotline. By the end of the day, the pages were down. </p>

<p>So, I am more sanguine than others that some good may come out of this case. It seems to me that having an anonymous hotline to report bullying may really help. I’m sure there will be some false reports. That’s what happens on child abuse hotlines too. But reality is that a lot of kids are removed from horrifying conditions because someone who was afraid to confront the parents directly or felt uneasy but had no real proof picked up a phone and called. Maybe this will happen with bullying too.</p>