<p>" I am curious. Where do you meet all these people on welfare doing volunteer work, whom you think should be working instead?</p>
<p>That sentiment you espouse on these boards, over and over, in one form or another is so Ayn Randian, Libertarian, and out and out lie propagated by the selfish"</p>
<p>Actually, I really shouldn’t have brought up that point, it is irrelevant. I had just heard this interview with a woman who thought it was societies job and not her job to provide for her children. On a side note, it came out that she was not working but spent her time doing volunteer work. It was not admirable, but it is irrelevant to this conversation, and it was fresh on my mind.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what sentiment that I espouse over and over is. To do the absolute best you can to take care of your children and your family? To encourage and to promote their success? Or are you just generalizing because I fall on a different side of issues than you do?</p>
<p>"we never put an emphasis upon doing this bogus community service Bogus to whom? Really? Then it was a poor choice. It doesn’t mean we throw out a longstanding ideal.</p>
<p>I am not a church going person, but put my kids into community service early, working with the needy, using the Judeo-Christian model, to let them experience something outside themselves and their “I wants.” It stuck. They can love, they work, they do community work in college. That’s not their goal, it’s what they do because it’s good and they can."</p>
<p>And that is great, I agree with you. I am annoyed by the act of doing community service that is not useful, and is done purely to enhance the resume and often is not even helpful to anyone. That is what I call “bogus” community service. Seems that you should do it because it is the right thing to do to help your community, in places that actually need your help.</p>
<p>What is especially saddening is that there was a time in this country, within memory of some of us, when the extreme anti-community positions advocated by some people here would have been so far out of the mainstream as to have evoked horror. Now we have political candidates falling all over themselves to outdo each other in endorsing them. And we as a nation are much, much the worse for it.</p>
<p>I also feel very, very sorry for the people who choose not to be part of the community. I’ve been there, and I know how lonely and spiritually deadening that life is - and how rich life is when lived in community with others.</p>
<p>libertarians want people to be able to pursue and achieve whatever they want, without a lot of government restriction</p>
<p>Actually, no equivocating. Can’t be sorts pregnant or sorta libertarian. The pure goal is no govt regulation- no traffic lights, no medical certification, no taxes (heaven forbid the state repairs a bridge when you don’t think it needs fixing,) and on and on. Just a moment of sarcasm, ok? Maybe some who exchew common laws would think there should be no regulation against domestic violence. Sorry, but the ups and downs of this thread are a roller coaster.</p>
<p>I’m a bit stunned someone would disdain knowing neighbors. And, I would love to hear more from saint about the community experiences. </p>
<p>There’s a lot wrong with this country, SURE. But also much that is delightful and good.</p>
<p>Remember that old thing moms told us- don’t screw up your face that way, that look might freeze on your face? Well, don’t let ponderings lead to generalizations and divisive attitudes. That’s not individualism, it’s orneriness.</p>
<p>I grew up in the suburbs, where you had to drive to see anyone, although we did visit with our immediate neighbors.
I don’t mind rural areas, but prefer the city and know many of my neighbors. One reason why we have lived in the same house since 1983 is because of the sense of community.</p>
<p>Community service is also an American bipartisan value.
As I mentioned on the “I’ve seen the President” thread, both Clinton & McCain are supporters of the Americorps program.</p>
<p>I am not a church-goer, either, and having never gone to college I had no box to check.</p>
<p>I consider myself a pragmatist. There are people who have come to my area who can’t read. That being the case, they are, in my opinion, very vulnerable to exploitation. I find that unacceptable, therefore I devote as much time as possible to helping them to at least develop basic reading skills. Really, what is the alternative?</p>
That’s me. I work full-time, commute at least 3 hours a day, have a house, husband, kids AND volunteer every week. There is no time and no interest. Maybe someone else doesn’t have the interest in volunteering that I have or the interest in trying out new recipes or the interest in having a clean house or the interest in listening to my son play his instruments. If you think something is valuable, you should pursue it, but you shouldn’t judge people who don’t share your views. For me, I can’t imagine why anyone would seek to spend time with people who may or may not be nice people.</p>
<p>I know all my neighbors but I don’t spend much time with them. We respect each others privacy. Our homes are havens from the barrage of social interaction we encounter throughout the day.</p>
<p>For me part of living in forced proximity be it a dorm room, a street in a neighborhood or a country is learning to live with people who aren’t like me in every way. I freely admit that I don’t have all the answers and am not a universe unto myself. My kids have richer lives for having streets full of neighbors who take an interest in them, look out for them and model different ways of getting along in the world. My husband calls it “street.net”</p>
<p>People in a neighborhood are much more likely to be “like” the other families in the same neighborhood.</p>
<p>My kids benefit from relationships with people who bring something of value to their lives, or to whose lives they bring something of value, than people who happen to live in the same neighborhood.</p>
<p>My oldest daughter teaches in a middle school filled with Liberian immigrants. As a result, she has won awards on curriculum development for students from Africa. She also participates in fundraising for the members of the LIberian immigrant community who have lost forearms in the civil war (there are many). The people I teach to read are generally Mexican and Guatemalan immigrants. My daughter also runs a program to provide school supplies for those kids who wouldn’t otherwise be prepared for school. </p>
<p>Not generally what people with preconceived notions would expect from a family of conservative republicans. Maybe they should.</p>
<p>There is no rule that people can only have fulfilling lives if they are in constant contact or even know there neighbors. A lot of children might be better off if they are prevented from being enveloped by their neighborhoods. It depends where you live.</p>
<p>From what I read and hear about libertarians, it is complex but has become more and more tied to devout forms of Christianity. Gay rights and abortion are 2 obvious examples where traditional libertarianism conflicts with religiously infused libertarianism. </p>
<p>The idea that liberty is being able to do what you want without government interference is a small part of American history. It’s the mountain man mythology, most of which is phony if you know the actual history; most “mountain men” were either agents of corporations or were actually involved in native society. Even Sacagawea was part of that; her husband was a French-Canadian trapper for the North West Company, essentially an independent contractor working for a large fur company. </p>
<p>In colonial society, people had obligations to the community and had to adhere to codes of conduct. There was the ability to leave, to strike out into the interior, but not many did that. Even the small towns established in the interior established ordinances for conduct. I’ve read diaries of people on wagon trains. They had to sign conduct pledges and could be kicked out for violating rules.</p>
<p>I don’t recall anyone on this thread claiming that the US has ever been a libertarian country. I claimed that our forbears survived due to their self reliance and self determination which to me are adjectives consistent with libertarian concepts, even though I never made that argument.</p>
<p>Not generally what people with preconceived notions would expect from a family of conservative republicans. Maybe they should.</p>
<p>As I mentioned up thread, community service is an American value & bi-partisan.
I consider joining the military to be community service, my conservative brother was in the Air Force for over two decades. My sister frequently hosts young men during their LDS mission service and two of her children have also served/serving as missionaries.
My aunt ( isn’t LDS) was a missionary in India from college graduation until her retirement at 65. Not sure what her politics are, but you can’t get much more selfless than that.</p>
<p>True. It totally depends on whom you live next to. I’ve lived in places where everyone is friendly, has regular get neighborhood activities, and looks out for everyone. I’ve lived in places where nobody even waves back, or everyone gossips about each other. Now I live in an area where people are pleasant, but busy, distant. We do most of the work in the common areas and always look out for things that would seem suspicious, but it would be nice if people were more social.</p>
<p>Trying to wrap my head around the idea that it’s not admirable for the lady who’s broke to do good in the world volunteering…</p>
<p>I don’t care if she’s rich or poor, she’s out there helping. I find that admirable.</p>
<p>She may not have it together in all areas of her life and need to work on that, but who here does have it together in every regard? I suspect not a single person, no disrespect intended to anyone. We is humans, imperfect.</p>
We is humans, imperfect.</p>