As students receive ED and EA results, what evidence is there that non-test submitters are NOT being penalized?

Just as a point of order from a former finance major married to a fine arts major. There are lots of students with tippy top stats for whom STEM is not a preference.

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Absolutely. Thats why I said ā€œas a groupā€ and what I am observing at our school. There are tippy top kids at every school and every major, and my own kid would fall into this, but they are not the trend. And my area high income, highly educated area is not representative of much of the country, but that is the reality we are seeing.

I was speaking in terms of college admission being more difficult in many cases if you apply to UG business. As far as whether business other than finance has gotten more financial over the years - yes it has. At top schools it always has been more numbers heavy.

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Did she get a 32+?

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Apologies - misinterpreted the original statement then!

I would disagree that it’s gotten ā€œmore over the yearsā€ but how one might measure that would be a mystery to me. I’m just going by my own education and hiring people within the business field over the last 30 years.

For example, 30 years ago operational KPI’s and ROI of marketing spend were foreign concepts. The world has evolved. HR today tracks cost-per-hire - data matters these days.

Wake went test optional long before COVID; I think it is serious about multiple measures/being TO. That said, I think having a strong test score helps there too.

On the other hand, UMich (I don’t know what SMTD is?) recommends that students submit a test score, so I think they want a score. That said, their 2023-24 Common Data Set had 52% of first year students submitting SATs and 18% submit ACTS. That means prob between 60-70% of current sophomores (the most recent dats) submitted any test scores, bc generally some students submit both.

This is getting very off topic to the thread so last I’ll comment but my argument would simply be that the first time - hundreds? thousands? of years ago - a marketing person went to a business owner and asked for money for marketing purposes the owner asked about an ROI. KPI’s is a relatively new acronym but the concept has existed for longer than we’ve been alive. What’s changed in the digital age is the ability to quantify some of these things in near real time.

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I am probably older and you are probably more successful… different frame of reference.

Off topic so offline if you want more.

SMTD is the school of musical theater and dance. DD’s SAT score is well above what that school wants to see but below what University of Michigan’s LSA school wants to see. She applied for a dual degree so opted not to submit her score. However, she’d rather get into SMTD than not at all. Should she supplement and submit her score?

I have no idea. Good luck to her though!

3 posts were merged into an existing topic: Michigan State University Early Action for Fall 2025 Admissions

I moved the UM discussion to the UM thread. Please move any further Michigan comments there. Thank you! University of Michigan Ann Arbor Early Action Fall 2025

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How is Wake similar to Emory? Emory has over 60% submit test scores, with much higher test scores.

Wake’s ACT interquartile range is 32-34 with 50% reporting scores.

Emory’s is also 32-34 with 60% reporting scores.

The schools are indeed very different culture and student body-wise but not much with respect to selectivity. I’m familiar with both and would prefer Wake hands down.

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In Upstate SC, on CC, and in a subscription FB group I’m part of, the deferral rate for TO applicants to Clemson is very apparent this cycle.

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Emory is a bit harder to get into. Both great and Wake is a ā€œfairlyā€ honest test optional while Emory is likely less so.

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Purely anecdotal, but several of my kid’s friends got into South Carolina and Alabama test optional. Some have lower GPAs than my kid. My kid was deferred from South Carolina and now we are regretting including her SAT. Her GPA is 4 as of this term.

From experience, it is hard to know whether to read into it that way. No 2 kids are the same. I get it and annoying though.

Wake Forest was test optional prior to Covid, so yes, it is truly test optional. If not submitting scores, I would definitely submit the ā€œoptionalā€ video.