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<p>I don’t want to divert this thread, so I’ll just say that I disagree with you. I know plenty of men who <em>do</em> instinctively understand this sort of thing, and are amply equipped with all desirable social graces!</p>
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<p>I’ve never heard that one! Aspie son was 11 lbs at birth. (Of course, NT sisters were 10 and 9 lbs.)</p>
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<p>I enjoyed this book a lot but the main character seems quite classically autistic rather than Aspergarian. My son was pretty ticked when he read the book because he didn’t think the character had Asperger’s at all. </p>
<p>But with that said, I loved the main character. Everything he said and did was perfectly logical from his perspective.</p>
<p>I think many of you do not understand Aspergers and are confusing it with just being a jerk.</p>
<p>Aspergers is not that. They have to consistently work on not being a jerk. They take it to their heart when they offend someone, because unlike the jerk or the typical teenager they never connected the fact that they did something wrong. They are missing that link. For them to say Thank you is the world because it was a conscious effort, they had to remind themselves to remember to say thank you. The avg 19 yo knows better, but elects to not do it for whatever reasons, an Asperger child does not elect because that is not how their brain is wired.</p>
<p>"Aspergers is not that. They take it to their heart when they offend someone, because unlike the jerk or the typical teenager they never connected the fact that they did something wrong. They are missing that link. "
Exactly! Aspies, especially teenage boys, are usually gentle, sensitive kids who know exactly what it feels like to have their own feelings hurt, but not how to prevent hurting others feelings. They know they are socially clumsy, because they are reminded of it every day! They have to consciously pay attention to how they behave with others, and have to remind themselves all the time to say the things that come naturally to others. This is hard work emotionally and mentally.</p>
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<p>But that’s the baffling thing about my son. Even if it’s pointed out that his lack of gratitude has the potential to be offending to someone that he otherwise cares about, this just doesn’t register. And because he’s not sullen or intentionally mean, I don’t think he’s being a jerk either. It just seems as if he’s wrapped up in his own world in this particular area.</p>
<p>Parents should teach their Aspy kids social skills. But until you parents of NT kids spend a year in an Aspy parent’s shoes, you won’t understand what a job that is. And teaching an Aspy to say thank you, while important, probably isn’t the top task for an Aspy parent. It’s probably not in the Top 10 Things You Have To Teach Your Child That Neurotypicals Just Pick Up Easily. It’s probably not in the Top 100.</p>
<p>Consider how learning a social rite is for an Aspy. His mom has told him that he should say thank to people, let’s say. But since he’s an Aspy, he knows that if he does, he has a good chance of getting it wrong- he’ll interrupt, he’ll stand too close, he’ll say thank you to the wrong person or at the wrong time- and then people will actively tease, abuse and reject him for his mistake. If he gets it right, nothing good will happen, since people are expected to get these social rites right. If on the other hand he just stays quiet in the corner, people will think worse of him, but since he’s an Aspy he won’t notice that. So from his point of view, doing this social rite is all risk and no reward.</p>
<p>It’d be like me saying to you, you have to go and touch that wall over there. By the way, if you do, you might get a painful electric shock. Go ahead, go do it. Would you do it? Would you do it every day, knowing that you’ll be getting a painful electric shock several times a week, and no apparent reward?</p>
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<p>Great post, Cf, but that part made me laugh…the List of Things You Have To Teach Your Child That Neurotypicals Just Pick Up Easily. We went to Disneyland shortly after Son was diagnosed and stayed at the Disneyland Hotel, which was quite crowded. Son - then in 4th or 5th grade - would plow into the crowded elevator as soon as the door opened, not leaving time for the others to get off. Add another thing to the List of Things You Have To Teach Your Child That Neurotypicals Just Pick Up Easily (even his sister who was 5 years younger knew - without my telling her - to wait.)</p>
<p>I liked the scene in the Temple Grandin movie where she’s working in the office at the magazine and the boss brings her a spray can of deodorant and she pleasantly says, “thank you.” That said so much - they know that they are missing a lot but often need things pointed out to them.</p>
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<p>You parents? Why the insulting tone? I don’t think anyone on this thread was making light of the burdens of a parent with Aspergers. </p>
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<p>I hear you, lindy. That’s why I think your gut is telling you that even though you have a kid with mild Aspergers, this particular issue <em>may</em> not be part of it, for him. But you don’t know. And more importantly, how can you help him care, if you can?<br>
There is a lot of variability in Aspie kids, as the spectrum even pulls in a lot of “typical” kids with Aspie traits. It’s not always that easy as a parent to figure out what is due to his Aspergers, and what is just part of a developmental stage. Not easy at all, and I sympathize. Like I said, a lot of teenagers are pretty uncommunicative.</p>
<p>I don’t think I would give up trying to help him see the benefits of gratefulness, and to gently keep pointing out the appropriate responses. I think Temple Grandin said that one of the things about Aspies as they get “better” - more socially adept- as they get older, because they get more practice.<br>
It may never be possible for him to truly be grateful, but learning to say “thank you” when appropriate (for the most part) is something you can probably expect him to achieve, in time.</p>
<p>When in doubt, trust your gut.</p>
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<p>Umm… Let’s just say that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, and parents who are far away from the autism spectrum don’t have Aspergers kids, so when you are responding to Aspie parents, realize they might have some of the deficits their kids have. “You parents” is insulting? I had no idea. Sorry.</p>
<p>^^Lol…Sorry to be so easily offended. It’s not like me. </p>
<p>I have a daughter with clear Aspie traits, btw, so I’m no stranger. She has never been diagnosed, and probably wouldn’t be, as she is too high functioning. She knows it though, and the knowledge helps her try to be patient with herself.</p>
<p>my quote: *some of what you’ve described is actually normal male behavior. *</p>
<p>DonnaL quote:*
I don’t want to divert this thread, so I’ll just say that I disagree with you. I know plenty of men who <em>do</em> instinctively understand this sort of thing, and are amply equipped with all desirable social graces!*</p>
<p>I wish you hadn’t taken my sentence out of context…see below.</p>
<p>*some of what you’ve described is actually normal male behavior. I doubt my H has ever written a thank you note. *</p>
<p>I don’t think I’m off-base by saying many women (at least of my generation and older) had to write the majority or all of the wedding gift thank-you notes (and other necessary family-related thank you notes). Yes, I know some H’s that agreed to write half of them, but most men that I know (again the 50+ crowd) left that job to their wives. </p>
<p>I also know that many of my female friends lament that when their H’s mention that someone at work had a new baby, rarely will the H have asked any pertinent details…like name, weight, etc. My H has even forgotten to ask the sex of a new baby. </p>
<p>Many men had nice manners, but many also aren’t inquisitive about other people’s lives like women more tend to be.</p>
<p>LOL, if you would look back on the Parents of the Class of '09 thread to last May or June, you’d find many of us talking about all the threats we made to get our kids to write their graduation thank you notes. (Son went on youth choir tour about 5 days after graduation. I told him he HAD to finish the thank you notes before he left. When we got to the airport, I found out that every parent of a senior had said the same thing.)</p>
<p>But I will say that those males *and *females who hate to write notes are not necessarily ungrateful. That’s a different issue. It’s probably been said already on this thread, but OP there’s a difference between feeling gratitude and expressing it. Whether one feels gratitude is the type of things that ministers preach sermons about.</p>
<p>*Expressing *gratitude in just the “right way” is a social skill, and is rather an art at that. I’ve been doing some pro bono work for a non-profit and the client (a highly paid non-profit manager) thanks me WAY too much…it sounds like its from some script he learned at a non-profit management seminar. Like Cardinal Fang said, there are a lot of ways to do it wrong…if you don’t sound sincere, it’s almost as bad as not expressing gratitude at all.</p>
<p>Writing thank you notes can be reduced to a generic format. Once we taught our Aspie the format (and this involved telling him explicitly that he was always supposed to thank the giver, and NOT mention that he really didn’t want or need the gift), we had no trouble getting him to write notes once we supplied him with paper, envelopes, and an address list. He is in fact rather meticulous with this sort of thing. (Our typical child is another story entirely, however…) Ditto for thank-yous for school and job interviews and other generic situations.</p>
<p>Verbal expressions of gratitude are however more context dependent and as others have mentioned, hard to get right and sound sincere. </p>
<p>Incidentally, my Aspie puts LOTS of thought into getting suitable gifts for others.</p>
<p>Our HS has a thing where they stress one positive character quality every month. The teachers nominate kids who have displayed that quality and the “winners” get T-shirts describing the quality. Senior year, Son got a “gratitude” t-shirt, for writing a nice thank you note to the teacher who wrote his college rec letter.</p>
<p>I see some kindred spirits who “get it.” I guess what I would equate lack of gratitude/manners/proper behavior in Aspergers people to is coping with deafness. A deaf person won’t hear if someone shouts just like an aspergers people won’t FEEL gratitude. But just as a deaf person can learn sign language or lip reading an aspergers person can learn to EXPRESS gratitude.</p>
<p>Can aspergers people come off as jerks? Yes. But IMHO aspergers people don’t mean to be jerks and aren’t trying to put others down or make them feel bad, they genuinely don’t realize how other people are affected by their behaviors/actions/words. As said before Aspergers people can be quite sensitive about their own emotions.</p>
<p>meezermom2, speaking as one from an Asperger’s household, I think you might be underestimating both how much gratitude Aspies feel and how easy it is to learn to express that gratitude in the socially acceptable manner.</p>
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<p>Apologies – I was not being entirely serious.</p>
<p>This discussion has made me think of my mother-in-law. She normally has all the social graces, etc. However, last fall she had an unusual stroke. I say unusual because it wasn’t from a blockage like my own mom has had. </p>
<p>Anyway…this stroke affected the front area of my MIL’s brain, and has totally changed her personality. She once had an absolutely fabulous sense of humor, now she takes everything literally. She doesn’t pick up on social cues anymore. </p>
<p>She used to religiously send thank you notes, and now she doesn’t even think to say, “thank you.” </p>
<p>Her “filter” is gone, and she’ll now say whatever she’s “honestly” thinking. She has no intention of hurting anyone’s feelings, but now she is doing just that. Her name is Josie, and now we say she’s Josie Unplugged. </p>
<p>It’s been very odd to see this very healthy and out-going person change literally overnight. </p>
<p>I realize that Aspie people have not had strokes, but the similarities in behavior strike me. It makes me wonder if there is a similar area of the brain that is affected. I have no idea; just wondering.</p>
<p>Only slightly off topic, here is a very interesting article about a money manager, Mike Burry, who figured out the housing / mortgage bust before it happened and made money on that call. The author credits some of this guy’s ability to pore through financial records to his Aspergers.</p>
<p>So some people are able to take their “learning differences” and make them work for them.</p>
<p>[Betting</a> on the Blind Side | Business | Vanity Fair](<a href=“http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/wall-street-excerpt-201004]Betting”>Betting on the Blind Side | Vanity Fair)</p>