Aspiring Athletes - HS Academic Preparation

Applying to College
1

So there’s another thread - a parent is trying to learn about Civil Engineering schools - whether they are theory or project based.

But more importantly - they have a potential athlete - and they are trying to make some sort of decision now - at 14 - so presumably a 9th grader - even though college is 3 -4 years away.

So I’m not understanding why the decision has to be made now - because - well, I’m not a parent in that situation.

But in my simple mind, there is 2-3 years to make the decision.

I assume - whatever the family decides will impact the academics of the next few years.

By that, I mean, a future engineer might go heavy math and science. But if not an engineer, maybe they don’t.

But then I think - even if you were going to end up a history major, you wouldn’t be hurt by the STEM heavy HS courseload - so keeping it gives you more optionality, which you might need if the athletic thing doesn’t work out for whatever reason - injury, ability, desire.

I guess what I’m asking - as I’d like to learn - what am I missing?

If the student decides I want to be a big time athlete, they now take a major 3 years plus away off the table and take it easy academically in HS? Or am I missing the point altogether?

What’s the story here? I’m fascinated and simply want to learn.

Thanks

2

Vis-a-vis the other thread, I think you probably are. As that OP clarified, the decisions being made are about athletic participation, not academic preparation.

But I think the larger issue here is that many kids start out with a lot of interests, activities, and potential paths to pursue. But even as early as middle school, commitments start growing, and not all balls can be kept in the air, and decisions have to be made. For my kid, it was “Should I stay in J.O. gymnastics, which will mean a 20+ hr/wk commitment at the gym throughout high school, or should I switch to a team sport that will let me play for my school?” (Even earlier, she was doing both gymnastics and synchro, and had to let one go.) She was lucky that her performing arts high school made it possible to keep up serious music commitments as well as team sports, while also taking a demanding academic courseload. But gymnastics would have required too many sacrifices in the other areas.

But what if it had been two team sports, and she had to let one go? Might we not have considered, for example, which sport had more potential work work well with her academic/college aspirations, even if those were still a bit nebulous? Obviously there’s much you can’t know about the future, when you’re in the first half of your teens. But still looking ahead at the possibilities can be part of the process, when you’re faced with having to pare down commitments and wondering which ones you most want to keep.

But this whole thing about taking it easy academically in high school… if something has raised that question for you, I guess it’s fine to bring up, but I don’t think it has anything to do with the thread that got you started on this topic. I think you must be blending your impressions of OP’s thinking with other thoughts of your own.

4 Likes
3

As I understand it, the issue in the other thread is this: a young, likely recruitable athlete is trying to decide whether to continue participating in a few sports or focus mainly on one sport. Prioritizing one sport at that age might improve the chance of being recruited.

Whether or not this athlete will want to compete in college, though, might depend on what sort of college he wants to attend. If a big P4 where the sport couldn’t coexist with the preferred major, he might not be interested in doing the sport in college. If a smaller school where they could coexist, he might want to do the sport and it’s even possible the sport would help him with admissions to some schools that are otherwise a lottery.

So, knowing what sort of college experience he wants might help with this decision now. There’s no intent to change academic courses, although it’s possible the recruiting route would change testing timelines, etc.

4 Likes
4

“I think you must be blending your impressions of OP’s thinking with other thoughts of your own” Very Possible…

OK - I guess because the topic was theory vs. hands on in engineering - I got thrown - like they were deciding to be an engineer or not (this early) - and then maybe planning HS classes around it.

So perhaps I missed something…

5

Yes, this exactly right.

1 Like
6

Ok. I think.

Then in reality - not this student - but in general a kid could stay on the I want to be on the hard core recruiting path til say Junior year ? I mean kids seem to change even late.

And let’s say a kid decided - I’m going to pursue athletics - but unfortunately kids get hurt and then senior year there’s an injury and they’re maybe locked into a school they wouldn’t want.

College sports is large and sophisticated and I guess it’s hard for me to put my arms around that.

7

It took me a minute to find this thread! I’m not sure why it’s here exactly.

To answer the question asked here, I think that knowing what a kid is interested in can impact course selection, although not dramatically, and more in the later year. For my older kid, he can’t handle an all honors level schedule, so he takes a mix of honors and on level classes, and it seems logical to me that he chose the honors classes that related more to his academic interests. Or, alternately, that he chose to take honors in areas of strength and his eventual major will follow on them.

In junior and senior year, when they have more electives, at least at my kid’s school, I wouldn’t be surprised if my younger kid who wants to be an engineer picks something like AP Chemistry and advanced computer science electives, while his brother, who wants to be a music therapist, is taking music theory, AP Psychology, and jazz band.

But, for my kid, the one in the other post, that’s a few years away.

8

Gotcha. So nothing academic comes from the choice today…at least in the short term. The fall schedule will be baked either way …?

I think the subject line of the other thread didn’t match the discussion or at least in my mind it didn’t.

9

Well, because people weren’t really getting what I was asking. I’m not asking advice on the athletic decision. I just want a better understanding of the various types of schools out there, and sometimes I learn best from comparing examples and non examples. So, knowing that we can go see WPI, and Princeton, or other pairs of schools, might lead to us having a better understanding.

3 Likes
10

That thread did seem to wander into other issues like how choices regarding sports now (as in aim for D1 recruitability, D2/D3 recruitability, or just sports as a good EC) can constrain which colleges and majors may be available to be selected when the time comes.

1 Like
11

You might, if the extra time spent leads to less practice which leads to the student not being recruited when they otherwise could have

12

Or if you didn’t keep up with the academic load due to too much practice.

There is also the question of impact on EC’s. My kid spends close to 30
hours on a non-tournament week at practice, training, or traveling to practice. If he sticks with it, there are a handful of super reach schools where his sport has the potential to help with admissions, and he could end up in a “better”* college placement. On the other hand, if he breaks a leg, or turns out not to be as good as they predict, or just decides that his first choice is Georgia Tech (a school with amazing civil engineering that doesn’t have either of his sports), then he’ll be up against students who used their time to captain the robotics team, or participate in competitive summer programs, or enter math competitions, or preparing an art portfolio.

  • What is a better outcome? I put the word “better” in quotes because at this point, for my kid, I don’t actually know, which is why I started the other thread.
1 Like
13

Interesting - and I personally think all the “better school” stuff in engineering is overhype.

My son interned with and lived with for the summer two Ga Tech kids - who he kept in touch with…one now working and one went to grad school after undergrad.

He was invited back to his organization a second summer…from Alabama and the Georgia Tech kids weren’t…so in some ways, I think the school matters less than people think. There’s a prominent poster now whose kid graduated Ga Tech, a fabulous school of course, but cannot find a job…as there will be kids like that from every school.

In some cases, often sales, organizations seek athletes - because the dedication and discipline your son will have will be like few others - and that may be the differentiator he has regardless of where he goes.

With athletes today, you have the transfer protocol as well - how big in your sport I don’t know - but a CMU (not Central Michigan but Carnegie Melon) just transferred to Wisconsin…not Madison…but Green Bay. A UCLA to TN…and the stories go on and on and on…and no doubt all these kids will still excel in life - if these keep those same disciplines in the workforce.

To me, the best outcome is that your kid do what they enjoy most today…because we only have today. Tomorrow is always unknown. One can set themselves up so they have odds of a better tomorrow - but from living to keeping a job to anything else, it is truly unknown…but today isn’t. If that means, playing their sport at the highest level and they crave that, that’s what I’d encourage…me personally but others could think differently.

14

I didn’t participate in the other thread because the OP asked which schools have project based vs theoretical based engineering, I didn’t know that thread had expanded topic because the initial topic wasn’t for me.

All your S can do for his academic preparation is to take four years of classes in each of the five core areas the hardest courses he can be successful in. Then, if he doesn’t play his sport in college, that academic record will primarily be what drives his list (along with the parents’ budget.)

By spending the time on athletics, he his already ‘giving up’ certain experiences that might play well in college admissions if he’s not recruited or decides to not play his sport. (like you say he will be competing against robotics team captains…including those who have won international competitions.)

This is going to be the same in his college experience…if he finds a school he wants to attend where the coach is recruiting him and allows engineering majors on the team, he might not have all the same ECs the other engineers do when he’s looking for a job (e.g., robotics, formula racing, coding comps, internships, etc.) These are the choices people have to make…one can’t keep all doors open forever.

So, I agree with those who’ve said let him do what makes him happy for now (along with taking a full HS curriculum in terms of core courses and the highest rigor he can handle.) For a kid who is choosing to spend 20-30 hours per week on sports, if athletic recruitment doesn’t work out ultimately for college, they will have likely eliminated some highly rejective schools from their list. Sure some schools and AOs like athletes even if they aren’t going to play in college, but sometimes that’s not enough to get an acceptance to HYP et al. (Adding I’m not sure highly rejectives are of interest if kid isn’t playing their sport.)

6 Likes
15

Many lower ranked top state flagships have excellent engineering programs. But this is not true universally - it’s not “just go anywhere and it doesn’t matter.” The rub IMO is that these “lesser name but excellent programs” schools have some of the most competitive teams in the nation and playing there can be quite the pipe dream. On top of that, many of these coaches will not allow their players to do engineering and other heavy STEM majors.

1 Like
16

This is a limitation that really cuts back on the number of schools that can be in the mix.

17

My point - and I’ll differ from @Mwfan1921 - I think sports alone is a great EC to get you, even into a top engineering school. Or sports at a high level and something else. Relevant ECs are not needed. The commitment OPs son would have to make, like marching band and even more so, shows a dedication that most clubs cannot touch.

But we don’t even know OPs academic profile but going to Florida Tech instead of Ga Tech instead of Ga Texh is not a death sentence, no different than we have a bunch of MBAs at my place working for a W Georgia undergraduate or a Harvard Law working for a Fairleigh Dickinson undergrad.

Too many create these - this school assures and this doesn’t. Yes statistically some outperform but ultimately people make their mark far more than their schools. If one is a stud at name your school with the characteristics needed in society, they have a great chance of succeeding. The converse goes for a top school grad if they don’t have those characteristics.

When you look at school outcomes in some majors, it’s interesting that whether it’s Michigan or Ohio state or UConn, reported success rates and salaries are quite similar. Even an IU Kelley, which we tout here, has very low salaries - in the 50s - dependent upon the geography placed.

My point all along has been why can’t OP’s student try that hardest curriculum. If it doesn’t work and they end up at WPI instead or George Mason instead of Georgia Tech, they’ll have experienced the high school life, hopefully, that most of us could only dream of and will have established lifelong ties. Heck, they might not even end up in engineering - that happens too even to those where it seems early on it’s the only possibility.

Just a fascinating topic and no doubt ten parents might steer their kids ten different ways.

My son had a ‘weird’ hobby. He was a plane spotter. Loved to go to the airport with his high end camera and take pics of planes taking off and landing. Used to send into these websites and get published - in addition to his own. The pro was he loved it and we had to stop at every small commercial airport we drive past, especially if a plane with a unique livery was coming in. Whether Tri cities TN or St Martin, I’ve spent countless hours. To me, he was avoiding making friendships. But it was his passion so we supported.

And I imagine most parents would do the same in this situation, if that’s what the athlete wanted. On the other hand, maybe a 14 year old doesn’t have the foresight to look many years out and possible impact.

Since it’s my thread :), I’ll simply end with - I still don’t understand why that ‘commitment’ to the sport decision has to be made so many years early. If it means Pre Calc instead of AB/BC, not a huge deal (in my mind).

But I’m enjoying reading the responses. And hopefully learning.

18

Because these days it’s difficult to be an elite athlete if you don’t do that.

There is not much more to it than that. If elite athlete is not the goal, no problem. Having said that, the harsh reality is that (traditional) sport as hobby as not valued as a strong EC, so there is that too. IMO that is mainly because that “bucket” gets filled by the varsity athletes and at that point AOs are looking to bring kids with other interests into the mix.

2 Likes
19

This kid wants to compete athletically at the highest level and possibly be recruited.

I understand the choice this student needs to make.

20

My definition of top engineering school could be different from yours and others of course, but not having engineering related or adjacent ECs is likely not going to fly at MIT, CalTech, and some other schools. But…it likely wouldn’t be such a limiter at other ‘top’ engineering schools which include UIUC, UCB, Purdue (all ‘top’ engineering schools IMO.)

1 Like