So do you agree that the event-goer (Jones) who was being ejected from the Fayetteville, NC event by multiple sheriff deputies was not at the time a threat to other event-goers, that the other event-goer (McGraw) who punched Jones was not justified in doing so, and that the initial inaction by the sheriff deputies with respect to McGraw was neglectful of their duties (they later arrested McGraw after it was pointed out to them)?
This is the incident referenced in the initial post of this thread (the linked article has the video).
There’s a gulf of difference between someone who threatens to punch or otherwise use imminent violence and someone who engages in heated words, jabs a finger before your face without touching, or even shoves you in practice.
In most cases I’ve seen growing up in NYC of the '80s and in many other areas…most cops won’t arrest for the latter if those actions were isolated or weren’t accompanied by more serious actions. Granted, I have not spent much time in the deep south or southwest so maybe the threshold for what constitutes assault is lower than what I’ve observed in practice when cops were involved with determining and/or arresting people for assault and battery.
ucbalumnus, awc (etc.) has been asked that question multiple times (including by me) in response to his claims that only the protesters have broken the law, but has ignored it – except once, I believe, when his response was something like “how do you know what happened; were you there?” As I’ve said before, he always takes the old “who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?” approach. Videotape? What videotape? It could have been doctored, right?
I hope doyleb realizes that the made-up term “crybullies” could easily be applied to people like the speaker whose rallies have been the subject of this thread, as well as to the continual victimology practiced by those who oppose minority rights (for example, LGBT rights) and women’s rights in general, for religious reasons or otherwise. “How dare you try to take away my freedom to deprive you of your civil rights, or prevent you from having them in the first place!” “How dare you criticize me for spending my life saying vile things about you!” “I’m a persecuted minority because people like me only have 90% of the pie now, instead of 100%!” There are no bigger whiners in this country today than people like that.
You still haven’t answerd @OHMomof2 's question. She asked what distance, she did not ask you what method the other person approached you in (or even what constitutes “threatening manner” in your book). She asked for quantitative data for e.g. 2 feet, a meter etc. It really isn’t rocket science. You are either deliberately misinterpreting the question or you just don’t understand it.
I agree @InfinityMan . No one can identify a specific distance because each person determines “threatening” differently. I don’t think people are getting the terms assault and battery mixed up, I think what people are having difficulty with is the broad and loose interpretation of assault.
How many of us have had the experience of inadvertently misinterpreting a gesture that we were sure was directed at us but was actually meant for the person behind us- like when someone smiles and waves and we smile and wave back, only to discover they were gesturing to the person behind us? Embarrassing, but harmless.
Wouldn’t it be unfortunate if a person was misperceived as approaching rapidly and aggressively, in a “threatening manner” (whatever that means) and the “victim”, who might be “packin’”, misperceived the movement of the rapidly approaching person who seemed to be running right towards them aggressively, but in fact was a frantic, angry parent who spotted and was chasing their child who had gotten temporarily lost and too far away from them in a crowd and the child was right behind the “victim”. Most rational people would avoid a perceived conflict and get out of the way of the person approaching in the “threatening manner”. They would not take a confrontational, defensive, posture. But some might puff their chest and confront the perceived aggressor to try to get the perceived aggressor to “stand down”. This might not end well. Those who seem to be looking for a fight, whether physically or verbally, are more likely to find it. Just because a person thinks they are justified in taking a defensive posture doesn’t mean they should.
Disney doesn’t allow weapons in their parks, but not everyone follows or respects the Disney policy.
@jym626 once I was in church and in the middle of the homily the priest pointed at me (sitting in the very last pew) and loudly, angrily told me to get out. My heart dropped and then I looked behind me and saw a tv news crew had come in. That’s when I realized he was talking to them.
The first time I went to Disney I was 14. In the rope drop rush at Epcot, in a part that wasn’t even super crowded, an old lady literally pushed me out of the way to get past me. I automatically said “sorry” before I even realized what happened. My mom was behind me and was so angry. She managed not to attack the old lady though and we just kept our eyes on the white hairs the rest of the trip.
I’ve worked with preschoolers before who thought if someone pushes someone else in line (usually to get ahead) and they ended up getting pushed as well, that it was ok to retailiate against anyone around them. I didn’t realize many adults would argue the same with a straight face.
It is true (I looked it up) that assault can have a couple of different meanings, and one of them doesn’t require actual contact, but just a threat of harm. But somebody getting up in your face and yelling at you isn’t a threat of harm, even if you don’t like it, and even if you tell them not to do it. You don’t get to define for yourself what you consider threatening behavior; the law will do that, using (most likely) a reasonable person standard. So if you punch out somebody who is getting too close to you but hasn’t touched you, be prepared to deal with laws that may not comport with what you’d like them to say.
Of course, this doesn’t apply at all to the “sucker punch” case, since the person who was punched wasn’t approaching the puncher at all–to the contrary. It speaks volumes, however, of people who can’t bring themselves to condemn even an overt criminal act like that.
Relating to part of the topic, this very misconception which is also influenced by racial factors is one which influenced acts such as this cop who felt the Black driver’s act of getting his driver’s license as ordered by said cop was threatening enough to shoot him several times:
And one would think the extensive background/psychological check he underwent before becoming an LEO would have prevented him from even joining a profession in which one must keep a calm cool demeanor in much worse situations.