https://www.oyez.org/cases/1968/492 describes the Brandenburg vs. Ohio case.
Good link, Ucb.
I did some additional looking around and yes, a speaker has rights to free speech to say just about anything he/ she wants to.
For the most part, the blame for whatever violence occurs is only on the party that does the violence.
The speaker would have to be very specific and call the fight blow by blow in order to be even considered as causing the violence.
The organized groups who came to shut down the rally are against free speech when they don’t like the speech.
Seen on protest sign:
Best insult ever.
It’s my understanding the rally yesterday was organized by moveon.org
And by people associated with a candidate.
Meaning he’s lowbrow or is there some other connotation I am missing?
The part that I do not get is why people think that they can go to a rally and think they have the right the scream and disrupt and try to shut it down. Is this not the same dumb stuff the “intolerant of different ideas” students at colleges are doing, i.e., trying to shut down speech they do not like?
Just because some people, and colleges/universities are stupid enough to cede ground and entertain these idiots does not mean others should. People are sick of others who who are perpetually offended by speech they do not like and then think they have some knuckle-dragging right to go and cause a disruption. They deserve to get punched and thrown out.
Seriously, you go to someone else’s event and cause disruption, no reason why you should not be kicked out forcibly. Hint - you were not invited, and your disruption is not welcomed. And unlike some people and colleges, we will throw your butt out along with your communist flag as well.
And this fact seems lost on them as well…
But we have seen this overall mindset before, .i.e, blaming another for one’s actions. Recall the protestors in Ferguson who were blaming the destruction of their town on police brutality. No, it was not the police who burned down your town, it was you!! What idiot burns down where they live and then blames someone else? Same here in Chicago - only an idiot goes to another person’s rally with intent to disrupt it and think that they would not be dealt with and then turns around and blames someone else for hurting them. These people seem not to know they have personal agency or understand what it is.
@anomander wrote -
As a NYer, yes this is an insult. Mustard and sauerkraut, maybe a little relish if you’re feeling the groove, but no ketchup on your hot dog ever.
It’s almost as bad as eating pizza with a fork! Wait, he does that too!!
Everyone involved is exercising their free-speech rights. It’s when it become violent that a line is crossed.
And being escorted out by police is one thing; being assaulted by the crowd is another.
Nonsense.
If I am conducting a rally and you are not invited, I do not have to wait for police to clear you physically. It is my space that I paid for - not the protestors - stay out of my space. When these protestors pay for the space and venue, then they can protest without me kicking them out.
An all too common error in civics is being made in the above quote. i.e., there is no free speech in space that I pay for - just like there is no free speech rights in private colleges or private companies.
Nah it’s just a regional thing as @greenwitch pointed out. Like insulting somebody by saying, “John cuts his salad!” “Joe eats french fries with a fork!” “Tim spoons his soup towards him!”
I understand what you are saying @awcntdb but that’s why you have security. At previous rallies he was whipping the crowd into a frenzy with inflammatory statements and then encouraging them to intervene on his behalf with protestors- isn’t that called vigilante justice? That’s dangerous place to go considering how fractured our society is right now. Best to leave crowd control to the professionals.
My own personal opinion is that this is just another way of dominating the headlines - at the expense of everyone else.
If the protesters had stood quietly with their signs, off the streets, and not interfering with those who wanted to attend the rally that would be exercising free speech. They went beyond that. They were swinging fists. I saw a policeman bloodied.
I’m afraid the tactics will backfire, like Chicago 1968.
Nonsense back at you. I didn’t say they couldn’t be removed. Of course, they can.
Now someone rushed Trump on stage in Dayton, Ohio, but the Secret Service intervened. Those who organize these protesters need to tell them to STOP this.
You are taking the nice road, but this may be why we are at this state. One gets more of what one allows to happen.
Also, please note that you are kind of laying blame on the people who are peacefully there to listen for taking action on people who are not peacefully there. Maybe the non-peaceful people would learn not to show up when they realize that the peaceful people will not take their nonsense. Is this approach not the same victim-blaming stuff that the left rants about?
People are just tired of others who think they can be disruptive at will and then others must stand there and take it until police/security arrives. In my house, which I pay for, I do not have to wait for police to arrive to take action against someone disrupting my home. At a rally, the person who pays for the venue controls the venue. You come in and disrupt, then you are trespassing,and no need to wait for police if the protestors get out of hand.
This is not vigilante, which means going outside the law. This is simply throwing someone off property they have trespassed on. It is well within the law for me to throw you out of my private venue, long before the police or security ever arrives.
This also causes riffs in the community as well, as Trump noted.
I assume “another way of dominating the headlines - at the expense of everyone else” is directed at the people who organized the protest.
Non-violent protestors have been harassed and beat up at previous events. It’s a natural reaction for protestors to start banding together and fighting back. This thread was started because a protestor in police custody was punched, and the protestor was swarmed and taken down by four cops whlie the guy doing the punching was ignored.
It’s an escalating cycle of violence, unfortunately. I’m not sure it’s fair to blame the violence on the protestors as they’re reacting to violence perpetrated against them by both attendees and law enforcement. I’m not condoning either side, just stating what I’m observing in the bigger picture.
I love my hot dog with ketchup. I’ve been known a time or two to eat my pizza with a fork. Honestly, what is it to you? I lived in NY and worked in NYC. I don’t think anyone really gave a rats you-know-what what I ate or how I ate it. But if that’s important to you, carry on.
If that’s why you don’t like Trump, you might need to dig a bit deeper.