OK, I’ll defend OP not that some think he’s trying to not use his own money to pay for college even if able. He started with he had money in mutuals that would pay for college but now that his business is struggling, he’s using the investments for living expenses. Quite different from just not wanting to use the money for college. He’s even given a budget of $40k per year total for both G’s.
And he wasn’t the one who asked about free lunches. That was a sidebar that spun up in the thread.
To qualify for the auto $0 EFC or simplified needs test…and have NO assets counted…one of the criteria in addition to the income thresholds is qualifying for a means tested benefit. That is why free/reduced lunch came up.
For this poster, that might not be a side bar at all…but would be the criteria that would guarantee his assets are not counted…if he also meets the income thresholds for auto $0 or simplified needs test.
He asked if assets would be counted…and if he meets one of these…they won’t be.
This applies to FAFSA only schools. Not Profile.
@thumper1 I understand that but it seemed some were poking OP for trying to get free lunches with substantial savings and that was never the case. His post midthread was quite helpful where he gave his motivation for posting. He has friends telling him everything from college will be free because he has no income to he’ll get zero aid because of assets.
There has been a lot of great information for him to answer those questions but I’m concerned that now that the information is mostly out there, it’s going to turn into a bashing of the OP for asking for aid at all. He has solid academic and financial safeties and asked a legitimate question.
I understand, @Sportsman88, but wasn’t poking fun. On a personal level, it troubles me. I don’t think OP has revealed how much in assets. But free lunch is for families struggling to feed kids.
Yes, many find themselves in that position, due to unexpected curcumstances. But even the guidelines I quoted say, “…resources that would be available to pay the price of a child’s meal.”
I don’t think free lunch is envisioned as a way to reserve 40k for college. Or to get more FA based on income alone.
I said *I * couldn’t do it.
I don’t agree, @lookingforward . The financial aid system is set up with rules and qualifications, and if a family can get financial aid within those rules, it should. Same with tax rules. Is it ‘fair’ for a family making $200k to take an exemption for each of 5 kids even though it can afford to pay more in taxes? Should a wealthy family not take an energy credit for installing new windows even though they qualify for it? Should a family making $159,999 not take the full AOTC because a family making $2 more is being phased out of that benefit?
Lots of things in taxes an financial aid aren’t fair (especially to me). We all have the same rules and I think it is fine to use the rules to one’s advantage. Look at what people do with 529 accounts to maximize financial aid. Look at how people plan for the student to spend one more night with a non-working parent to qualify for more aid on FAFSA than to use the employed, maybe wealthy co-parent. Within the rules.
If the SNAP application requires disclosure of all assets, fine, but current rules do not. When you lose a job, you might have cash in the bank, but you’ll need that next month to pay the rent or dentist. You need to conserve cash so qualifying for free lunch helps.
I don’t think anyone is bashing the OP- I think a bunch of thoughtful posters who are savvy about financial aid are trying to help guide this family’s thinking on admissions and finances.
Is there a way to shelter this family’s assets so that the combination of zero income and a failing business net them significant need based aid? Probably. Is it all legal? Some is, some isn’t. Can it be done now with the current window available? No. Is it worth exploring some of these asset shifting strategies just to see what the impact on aid might be? My answer would be that it’s a free country and there’s nothing to stop this family from exploring. But given that some of these tactics are likely illegal or would take a lot of time (i.e. a few years head start vs. now) AND the OP is trying to save their business so probably has other things to do during the day- posters have tried to encourage some realistic options (i.e. significant merit aid, commuting, starting at a CC first to save on Freshman/sophomore tuition, raising those scores sky high).
I don’t see bashing.
@lookingforward I completely agree neither OP nor others with substantial assets should look for free lunches but unless I’ve misread his posts, OP hasn’t sought free schools lunches and doesn’t intend to. That’s my point. His question was only about college aid and that was brought up as a means test.
I was joking a bit when I made my comment about being the richest poor family…
It’s just that at the beginning, I was picturing a family whose business has been failing and that has meant living off of savings which have now dwindled to the point that the balance will be needed to relaunch the business and paying for living expenses. Never would I have suspected that the savings, at this point, would still be able to fund a substantial college contribution for twins, while still having enough left-over for the business’ and family’s other needs.
Maybe when he wrote this, he meant same as I feel: “SNAP had better not cover my situation with regards to assets.” Not someone with his level of (relative) security. Don’t jump on me, I did say relative. I know many of us feel pinch, at times, for various circumstances.
But things like energy credits (against work done and billed/paid) or buying a new car, etc, are discretionary. The family that can’t feed their kids isn’t buying that. That’s my unease about free lunch and SNAP, specifically.
Anway, maybe we get off this bit, until OP comes back.
I admit it’s not a clear statement. I took it as SNAP shouldn’t prevent him from getting some amount of aid at a $65,000 college, not prevent him from getting free lunch for his kids. But, definitely could be interpreted either way.
OK - I’m back. You guys have been busy.
First of all, I would never accept SNAP or reduced lunches or anything intended to help poor families feed their kids!
Secondly, I’m not Thurston Howell III. If the housing and financial markets tank and/or my biz doesn’t recover and/or we can’t get gainful employment then it will have been a mistake to fund anything. However, I do hope to earn something someday. I am not going to tell my kids they can’t go to college because every future event might go sideways.
Thirdly, I am not looking to game or cheat the system. I don’t have income which stinks so I’m interested in any aid that is available under the letter and spirit of the rules. I won’t take the equivalent of SNAP for tuition but I will take aid that would otherwise be available to middle class parents who lost their jobs. If I don’t qualify for any then so be it but I thought it fair to ask.
Meanwhile…I had an impromptu budget talk with the D’s this morning who got it immediately. D1’s biggest problem with UNC-CH is that too many classmates go there. She’ll probably go and like everyone we know she’ll probably love it. D2 has always been less certain about everything so who knows? I told her that if we could find an out of state school for CH money then we’ll check it out. My guess is depending on June SATs she ends up at App.
I wouldn’t worry too much about this. 28% of my graduating high school class went to my college, and other than occasionally in passing, I only saw them if I wanted to see them. And UNC-CH is a much bigger school than the one I attended.
I'm not Thurston Howell III. <<<
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I was wondering where Lovie was.
There are about 18,000 undergrads at UNC-CH. so let’s say…4500 in the freshman class? Even IF your daughter had 1000 kids in her HS class and ALL of them went to UNC-CH…there would still be 3500 others who didn’t!
I do think that your twins should also like at schools where they might garner significant merit aid. If their SAT scores improve enough, that could be a reality for them.
So…back to the original question about whether assets would count…
Since the OP won’t qualify for auto $0 or simplified needs test, then yes, assets will be counted in the fafsa formula.
If I were you, I would try to identify at least 3 schools that your kids would like, where the net costs after merit is about $10-15k each.
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D1’s biggest problem with UNC-CH is that too many classmates go there. She’ll probably go and like everyone we know she’ll probably love it. D2 has always been less certain about everything so who knows? I told her that if we could find an out of state school for CH money then we’ll check it out. My guess is depending on June SATs she ends up at App.
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We hear this sort of thing a lot. I don’t think most high schoolers can comprehend how much bigger a flagship Univ is, and they won’t be seeing old HS classmates that much. UNC is over 700 acres.
Unless your DD goes to a mega-high school crammed with very strong students and/or UNC is commutable, I really doubt that many classmates will actually end up going there …even if they are now claiming that’s where they’ll go. Many won’t get in, many won’t be able to afford it, many will want to go to other schools. The ones that do end up going, will be in a variety of majors, and she may only see them occasionally walking across campus.
My boys were at the same undergrad at the same time, and they only saw each other when they PLANNED on it…and they were both in STEM majors …meaning that they were both taking classes in the same area of the campus.
UNC will not be Grade Thirteen High School.
Our kids are among those who went to a U that had a significant number of kids from their state and even their HS. They still got to know a ton of other kids and didn’t feel in the least restricted because they saw faces that were somewhat familiar from time to time on campus. It sounds like you and your kids are moving ahead in a plan that will work well for all of you, @byadg123. Good luck!
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Shhhhh…my wife isn’t to know.
As for seeing classmates: In the last 3 years their tiny HS had 80 kids apply, a little more than half got accepted, and a little more than half of those attend. They know that it won’t be an issue, but I know that I won’t die bungee jumping yet I’m sure that I would.
I don’t know if anybody mentioned this but NC has state need based grants that for students that attend a school that is part of the NC Unversity system. These grants appear to be based on your FAFSA EFC not the EFC caculated using the Profile. So if your income is low, you could recieve a need based grant from the state at UNC-CH even with high assets. However this grant might not appear in your initial FA package because the amount is not known until the state budget is passed. It was a very nice unexpected surprise in June after accepting the initial package in May. You might also qualify for a SEOG grant. UNC-CH does appear to consider the Profile for workstudy so don’t expect that with a high assets. I say appears since I can only guess based on our FA package. We were also low income but high assets.
If you have a low FAFSA EFC, I would ask each NC state school about the state grants. Do not assume that they will be in your initial FA package. The maximum grant appears to be about 4k. No idea if that is per student or total per year.
mom2collegekids is right at least for UNC-CH. I was surprised that our highly rank HS of about 1000 kids had so few kids going to UNC-CH. I think the number was about 35-50.
Remind your daughter that the larger freshman dorms have 12 stories and hundreds of stundents in them. She will have to actively look for her former HS students.
The kid isn't a shoo in to UNCH with a 1200 SAT, right? I see it is about 30% admission rate.
I could only imagine she would be delighted to increase her SAT enough to be a lock for CH. When are they resitting tha SAT? Are they doing real prep?