Yeah, it’s odd that the Soviet Union which killed millions and tried to nuke the U. S., has symbols that are now considered comical. I don’t get the psychology of that.
^^Two wrongs make a right? Try staying on topic. The confederate flag is a stain on our history, and it’s our business.
“Yeah, it’s odd that the Soviet Union which killed millions and tried to nuke the U. S., has symbols that are now considered comical.”
Any of those flags hanging on public property or on any statehouse grounds?
This topic veered off from the title days ago.
@NoVADad99 Come again?
Akin to Germany “honoring” the Third Reich’s “heritage and history” and the men who died in the war by proudly flying the swastika. Oh wait, they outlawed the swastika, understanding that celebrating a symbol of oppression would prevent the country from healing and moving forward. Smart move, Germany.
Yes, they outlawed the swastika. But when I was in the former East Germany not too many years after the fall of the Soviet Union, street vendors were selling Soviet caps, uniforms, trinkets of various kinds with the hammer and sickle. Odd.
“Oh wait, they outlawed the swastika, understanding that preserving a symbol of oppression would prevent the country from healing and moving forward. Smart move, Germany.”
We can’t do it. We are are country of 350,000,000 - not homogenous, the Constitution - it’s too hard, wouldn’t make any difference and there would still be racists and hate groups.
I know, eb. But it shows how powerful a symbol is, and how far it can go toward keeping a wound open.
@TatinG, they were selling old Soviet junk in the former DDR because there was massive unemployment there, and the people had to do things like that to get by. There was a big demand for former Soviet and East German paraphernalia, especially by western tourists. I know many GIs who went over to buy up lots of those things. Note that people who collect those things don’t parade around in those uniforms to celebrate Soviet or East German heritage.
Regarding “honoring” the history, the SCV posts its “Camp Procedural Manual” online. There is a detailed section on flags. The US flag always takes precedence and the Pledge to the US flag apparently opens every meeting. Then there is a “salute” to the Confederate flag: “I salute the Confederate Flag with affection, reverence, and undying devotion to the Cause for which it stands.”
Twenty years ago an acquaintance invited me to an SCV meeting. Although I was raised in the north and identified as a northerner through and through, 2 great-grandfathers had fought for the south so I guess someone thought I might be interested. The salute made me really uncomfortable and frankly, the rest was just boring business stuff. I never went back.
Interestingly, my “southern-raised but transplanted northern college professor” grandfather always told me when I was growing up that one of my great grandparents fought for the Union and one fought for the South. As an adult (and with the advent of the Internet!) I learned this was a lie, and that both fought for the south. I’ve always wondered what motivated his lie–was it shame?
LM, I was just parroting the excuses I keep hearing why we can’t take any action on anything anymore.
Do you think that those East Germans were buying the trinkets because they long for the days when they were subject to the hammer & sickle? Do they use them to advocate for a return to Soviet domination, and to rebel against the modern German state which now includes them?
There’s tons of Che Guevara merchandise sold through out South America, but I’d say they aren’t campaigning for his return.
EDIT: Although, come to think of it, probably not the best example.
349 - I was trying to explore or find any logical distinction between these various symbols of repression. No one (at least on this thread )would walk into the swastika bar or a business flying a Confederate flag but yet Minneapolis has a Hammer and Sickle bar. I suppose the answer is that people don't know history well at all. Some symbols retain the stench and others don't. I just find it odd.
@TatinG - Maybe the difference is that the Soviet Union is dead and gone, and communism seems to be as well. OTOH, anti-Semitism is alive and well. As is racism.
Trying to ban the Confederate flag will just make it mean more to racists.
And it will make people feel better, like they “something”.
All they are doing is likely contributing to the next attack. Everything is all over the media, so it is like shoving it in the white supremacists faces.
The issues of mental health and education (9th grade dropout) are all but ignored, in favor of “we have to pull down the flag”.
Geno’s in Philly took a Confederate flag symbol off of a motorcycle that is part of their street display. Was it not wanting to be identified as a racist, or was it smart business sense?
When I am in a big city, I lock my doors no matter who walks by. Or even at stoplights. Yes, most people who walk by in the cities I drive in are black.
Think about how Charlie Hebdo was lauded for spewing hate speech - the trick is to rile people up to the point of violence, and if you are lucky enough it is the other side that gets violent first, you become a martyr.
Instead of a spewer of hate speech and racist.
Having a hard time seeing how having your brains splattered all over the floor makes a person lucky.
“It’s ironic that all of South Carolina is being branded as racist when they have one of just two African-American senators and an Indian-American governor. More diversity in representation than most states.”
Where on earth is all of South Carolina being branded as racist? I’m quite sure the vast majority of SC are honorable, decent people.
Agree. Yesterday I saw photos from the demonstration in front of the statehouse, and the vast majority were white. They looked pretty mad too.