Really hoping they don’t post armed guards around that flagpole. Will the SC legislature act quickly, or will it turn into Tiananmen square?
@Bay - I live in a place with many, many non-citizens and they seem to be like waves of newcomers before them . . . eager to start weaving themselves into the fabric of the community. The parent don’t seem to think of themselves as non-Americans and the kids certainly don’t. Even if they weren’t born here they become locals fast.
I live in the town where I was born and my kids attended my Jr H and HS. There are many people like that but also many people from all over the world. Seeing them be themselves yet work into their new neighborhood is a joy. Maybe it’s not that way other places but here and amongst my kids for sure that’s part of the charm of living here. In less than 1 generation kids become fully American and fully Washingtonians and Seattleites even if their parents came from China or Belgium or France or Sudan or Laos or Russia or Korea or wherever. My kids expect that real “melting pot” and are surprised when they don’t see it other places as they travel around this country. We have been in our house for 18 years and my great aunt and uncle were here for 20 years before that. There are people who have lived on my street for 55 years (when it was built) and several second generation families like mine. There are at least 2 multi-generational families where kids with spouse and grandkids have moved back in during life transitions (both on wither side of us and both white families who have been here a long time). There are also families from Singapore, India, China, Portugal, Hungary (I think, or some other E Europe), “Persia”, 2 African American families, and more. Three families send their kids to the local parish school and there are several other Catholic families besides. My next door neighbors are “Bible believing” conservative Christians but not in any way that impacts us. This is in a community that is often poked fun at for being “white bread” suburbia. When I walk the dog in the evening guess what everyone else is doing . . . walking their own dogs, riding bikes, watering lawns, playing soccer, visiting with neighbors . . . all those things that native white Americans do just like they BELONG here. Who knew? When I get a few blocks away there is a street where there is a Hasidic family (women in head scarves and wigs on Saturdays) and two doors down the there is a N African Muslim family (more headscarves). They all love to visit with my dog. I pass two more muslim families that I know of. One is an apparently white woman married to a N African man with 4 kids and the other I’m not sure but they are full on black burka and veil wearing. Still, they work in their yard and wave from their porch.
My take home is that the way to get new-comers to feel and act like they belong is to treat them like they belong. It has always seemed like a disconnect to me that some people in the south (Roof included and emphasis on ‘some’) feel like they need to take their country back from black people. Wait a minute here . . . how did they get here in the first place? How do you get your mind around your sainted ancestors bringing people here against their will then resenting those people in future generations for being here?
I think overtly valuing ones’ family lineage and tradition is an old world idea that is still fairly common in parts of the U.S. Even I sometimes brag that my kids are third generation Californians, just because it is somewhat unusual in our state, not because it makes us better or gives us a higher claim to be here.
As an aside, it’s funny that you used the phrase “melting pot,” because that is also on the list of microaggressions.
@ lizard Nikki Haley didn’t just say it’s state law. It is state law. Contrary to some people’s opinion , not everyone in SC disregards the laws that are currently in place.
Adding thoughts on Roof from my perspective out here on the opposite coast: as the story unfolded I was surprised by two things. One, that he was a gun owner who hates the Ametican flag (as that is counter to the stereotype), but more surprisingly that he views blacks as taking over the world. That is a bizarre view from where I sit, as my perception is that blacks are the most oppressed minority in the world and continue to struggle in most areas of American society.
If the pie is seen as finite and two groups are pitted against each other for the same small slice of the same limited pie then if one group seems to have more the other group might feel that they will have less. Hence, if any black people in your community are doing well it must be in some way taking food from your own table. The Souther Strategy in a nutshell.
There are laws, but there are unwritten rules too that Haley could have maybe exercised. If Haley truly believes the Confederate flag should come down, she could have ordered it down for repairs or cleaning or some other legal mumbo jumbo until state legislators change law. What are chances Haley would have been arrested or riots start up removing the flag? If laws hadn’t been broken in South through civil disobedience by civil rights activists a few decades ago, Jim Crow laws might still be in effect. The flag should be removed from capitol steps.
@ lizard I also believe that the flag should come down, but the right way so it stays down legally. The person who climbed the pole isn’t even a state resident.
"I think overtly valuing ones’ family lineage and tradition is an old world idea that is still fairly common in parts of the U.S. "
Yes! Thank you. That is what I was trying to say earlier. That’s precisely why so many people came here - so they wouldn’t have to be bound by who (it just so happened) their ancestors were, their religion was, etc.
It may not be “right,” but it is certainly common to encounter unwelcoming cliques of people based on where they are from in places outside the South. Both my D’s felt the Manhattan New Yorkers were very cliquish at their East Coast colleges. D’s felt that more than a few East Coasters looked down on them for being from CA. D said one guy from NJ told her, “Convince me why I should go to CA,” as though she would be unable to come up with a good reason. She responded that she couldn’t care less if he went or not.
When I worked on the East Coast in the 80’s, co-workers used to tell me I was from the land of fruits and nuts.
LOL. That’s the defining criteria do be deemed to be a southerner! Not how long you’ve lived in the region or whether you raised your kids there for decades, but if you can pronounce Albany!! Can pronounce, and have been to, LaFayette (La-FAYette) and Resaca (Re-SAKa) too. But no parents or grandparents lived on the plantations. Guess just a carpetbagger with good articulation skills…
We have a Lafayette that is pronounced LAFFEY - yet.
I have a friend who’s lived in New York City for 35 years, and I still think of him as “my friend from New Orleans,” rather than as “a New Yorker.” But I happen to be one of only two people I know living in Manhattan who were actually born here (and I’m a 4th generation NYC resident on my father’s side), so my definition is probably stricter than most people’s.
@Bay - I like your daughter’s response.
I remember seeing a piece with Samantha Bee where young men from NY and from NJ were having it out (verbally) about who was better. She said, “isn’t that like attacking your conjoined twin?”.
I understand that in the flag has to come down on a permanent basis after the State Assembly debates and votes, but I also kind of love that a black woman just climbed the H-E-Doubletoothpicks up there and took it down by herself (in yoga pants!)
@saintfan Oh, it was awesome. I watched the video again and a lyric came to mind - “If you’re not giving it, I’m taking it.” Yes, it wasn’t legal, but oh, man, it was swell. 
From Twitter:
“The flag was replaced about an hour later.”
They should have quit while they were ahead.
I have confidence that that flag will indeed soon come down. A confluence of ripe conditions makes it all but impossible for a return to the status quo. Friday’s SCOTUS decision on gay marriage demonstrates this admirably. :)>-
There’s history behind that flag that some people don’t understand. Those supporting the flag argue that since it’s been flying for as long as they can remember, it must be right. Slavery, anyone?
I’m sorry stugace, but I’m thoroughly confused by your post. Could you restate it?