<p>cptofthehouse–Augustana is extremely hands-on. Personal attention, beautiful campus. D2 was awarded a wonderful scholarship offer but in the end decided to attend UW-Madison, with (of course) NO merit. Argh. She loves it there.</p>
<p>poetgirl–Blackburn is in Carlinville, IL, maybe an hour south of Springfield. The couple of kids I know that have attended really enjoy themselves. That’s as much as I know.</p>
<p>soozie…I disagree…The state flagship and the small unknown privates are all very similar in there education. I am making a statement about education in this country not about education at State U’s vs top schools or State U’s vs small unknowns. The education is similar at the state U’s as it is in the unknown privates that parents are paying a boatload of money for their kid to attend. I would also not clssify UVA as just any state college…It is a fine university, as is Chapel Hill. I will not be specific to the schools I have come across because many parents have their kids at these schools and that would be just hurtful…however if they only knew that what they were paying for could have been attained at the state U and the education would have most likely been better. My daughter is at a Flagship U. Her decision to attend was late in the game but that is where she is. I am not impressed. I am sure that there are majors such as engineering that are sufficient but my daughters major leaves alot to be desired. So I would also suggest that parents and students consider what their money is paying for before their kid cries dream school for some little unknown school. It is a huge ammount of money to just not look wisely at where it is going.</p>
<p>momma-three- It is my understanding that your daughter is attending a very NON-flagship state school in your state which is, in large part, a commuter school. I don’t think you can compare that school to much of anything, frankly. I understand the specific reasons why your daughter is at that unknown school instead of Scranton, since there is a thread about it that has been going on for 5 weeks or so, but I do not think you have any kind of basis for some of the comments you are making here.</p>
<p>Momma three - Based on S1’s scores and GPA he would have been the perfect candidate for a state school. But we felt would have gotten lost in the system and that he needed a smaller environment where he could flourish and take ownership of his education. He is attending a Lutheran LAC and it was the best decision we ever made. His 4 professors this fall all held doctorate degrees from Yale, Columbia or Northwestern, his freshman lit class required the readings of Homer, Aeneid, Nicomachean Ethics…, the girl he rode home with over break was invited to a NASA flight program for the 2nd year in a row and he has the key to the Physics lab so he can repair hockey gear. He is a changed boy.</p>
<p>So for us and for this one child, it was worth it the high cost of tuition. S2 is a different story. Perfect score on ACT, etc and we are at a loss as to what to do. He will succeed no matter which college he attends and while we want to give him every opportunity we are having a tough time justifying two private UG school tuitions since S2 will go onto grad school. He is accepted into the honors program at the U of Minn and would happily attend. He is waiting to hear from Wash U (could attend if he receives a large scholarship) and from Princeton. We have told him that if he gets accepted into Princeton and if it is still his first choice that we will find a way to pay for it.</p>
<p>To answer the OP. I personally think $40,000 is the number I feel comfortable with.</p>
<p>Momma-three, I don’t dispute your issue about majors- fact is, some disciplines lend themselves to a watered-down curriculum and others don’t. But I think there are kids who will always seek the easy path, and as a parent, what do you do about that? Friend of one of my kids majored in “Sports Management” and now, a few years out of college, he realizes how much time and money he wasted. There are a lot of easy ways to get through a bachelor’s degree, and a seemingly endless supply of kids who don’t want to challenge themselves. Takes all kinds.</p>
<p>But at those same institutions there are kids learning, stretching, growing, showing up at office hours to ask the professor to clarify a point made during lecture, emailing the TA to get a list of additional articles or books to read on a subject, etc. So it’s unfair to blame the entire university.</p>
<p>There is NO way secondary and tertiary state colleges can hold a candle to the lesser known private universities mentioned above…AND,I don’t think they are THAT lesser known to begin with…Anyone who has spent any reasonable time researching schools would clearly know them…I believe it is these type schools(second and third rate state schools) that are feeding the ‘must attend college’ mentality…The graduation rates are abysmal…</p>
<p>The bottom line is that nobody has any basis to comment on any school outside the one that they personally attended or they are very familiar because of their kids enrollement. It includes Ivys. The end result depends on a student much much more than the instituion. The opportunities are everywhere, no exceptions, so are party going and slacking crowds. Some grab opportunities, others decided to have fun, third a little of both, and we parents are not even there. There are examples of Ivy graduates with high GPA’s having trouble getting to Grad./Med. school and there are examples of graduates of unknown state colleges having accepted at several awesome top ranked ones and having hard time deciding which one they like the best. There is no general rule. Well rounded student who works hard and participates in meanningful and enriching activities, who seeks to gain academically and develop as a person WILL BE SUCCESSFUL at any UG and after graduation moving to their next place.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, I’m with you-I had the distinct impression that momma-three’s daughter was not at a flagship university. UVa, Michigan, Rutgers(New Brunswick campus),etc. are flagships. Didn’t think the daughter was at any of these types of schools. Perhaps momma-3 can clarify . As I said earlier,bright ,motivated kids can do well anywhere,even at some of the schools I’m sure that momma-three has such disdain for.</p>
<p>Yes, I also read that M-3’s d is at a NON flagship state university, and she identifies the school in earlier posts. She did go to Scranton for a year, I believe.</p>
<p>Momma-three has her opinion, no one here is going to change it, and if you ask me it’s too vague to be of any use anyway. She is not defining what she means by lesser-known privates. If she means schools like Grinnell, Earlham, Dickinson, Hampshire, Conn, Skidmore, Knox and Occidental, well, that’s just nonsense. I know current and former students at all of those schools, and ones quite similar, and most of them are getting/have gotten very fine educations.</p>
<p>She can think those of us who choose such schools are throwing our money away as much as she wants. Who cares?</p>
<p>If in fact she means really non-selective schools, the ones known as party schools with 80% acceptance rates, well, maybe. But still, who is she, or who are any of us, to judge what a family deems is best for their student?</p>
<p>My father dropped out of high school, went to community college and earned his B.A. from Cal State-Northridge, an unheralded commuter public no doubt laughed at by many folks on here.</p>
<p>He then earned his Ph.D in paleontology from UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>The only stigma attached to a “lesser” college degree is the one you choose to attach.</p>
<p>My son goes to a private elite LAC and we are middle class. After financial aid, this school was more affordable than our in state public which offered no aid at all. If they want you enough a middle class student can attend a top college. I found that the key is applying to many colleges(he applied to 14) and go with the best offer.</p>
<p>I really hope no one is laughing at directional state U’s or at Mid tier LAC’s. I certainly want my state (virginia) to keep supporting its lower ranking publics - which, arguably add a more unique value to the Commonwealth that can’t be obtained at private U’s than our tippy top flagship does. </p>
<p>I do think though that the questions of “is it worth it” are potentially relevant at those directional state U’s and at some of the lesser ranked privates. Though it depends on the program, and on the student. </p>
<p>I also think the “is it worth it” is more relevant at the for profits.</p>
<p>polarscribe, keep in mind that the environment at CSUN now is different than when your father was a student. I absolutely agree that a student can succeed there and go on to great things. I also know that it’s increasingly difficult for students to navigate the system and get classes that they need.</p>
<p>Ct…My best friends son attended Scraton not my daughter. My daughter attended a similar type school and did come home. My daughter is now attending one of our states better known schools and does commute. It is not a commuter school. If you disagree with my impression feel free to pay the $50,000 for a school that provides the same education as a state school. The pricer schools may be prettier and the student body may even possibly be wealthier but the education is what it is.</p>
<p>Soozie…You mentioned those names in your posts I have yet to name one school by name. I am curious why you are finding necessary to pinpoint me to name schools. I have my opinion about these no name schools and there is no ammount of marketing or parent speak that will convince me that spending $50,000 a year on these types of schools are worth it when the state U’s provide the very same thing.</p>
<p>^^^^ that sounds like sour grapes to me,sorry…^^^^</p>
<p>Momma, I think where all of us would agree is that for sure, we each have our list in our heads of “No way would I pay for that” school. I had one, my H had one, and of course, since kids are different, it was a different list for each kid (and H and I disagreed vociferously on some of the schools.) We tried not to argue in front of the kids- H’s definition of a party school and mine weren’t always in synch.</p>
<p>So I absolutely respect your right to decide that there are some schools where you personally wouldn’t pay full or partial freight to have your kid there. I had such a list myself. But that’s not exactly the same as branding an entire group of schools as “not worth it”. I personally was not willing to pay full freight for a private but not top engineering school for one of my kids. There were many publics (not our own, unfortunately) where the engineering programs were significantly better than at some of these privates. And engineering is such a reputation-driven field. (I know many of you disagree, but I’ve hired boatloads of new engineers for one of my employers way back when). So to us, graduating from a top ranked engineering program was a priority for this kid. Public, private, didn’t care, but paying through the nose for a 3/2 program, or paying for a sub-par choice seemed like a bad call for our family.</p>
<p>But he had friends looking at some of these schools, and frankly, now that the kids are all out of college and working, many of them have done just fine for themselves. I’m sure the parents feel the sacrifices were worth it, and frankly, if they were choosing between “kid graduating with a degree” vs. “kid dropping out of big public U engineering to work at Walmart”, then paying for a not well known engineering program in a nurturing environment was worth it for them. Not for me to criticize the schools or their choice to spend their money.</p>
<p>I believe that an education is much what you make of it and it is far more about the person than the school in which they attended. </p>
<p>That said, while you are entitled to think of what is worth it to you, momma-three, in terms of paying for an education, I completely disagree that the experience at certain private schools that are not elite schools is not only worth it, but is very very different than certain state schools, particularly the kind that are not flagship state schools but lowered tiered ones of the commuter variety whereby the majority who apply are admitted. The experience will be totally different. </p>
<p>I admit to being confused by your body of posts. In the past, you said your D would not consider applying to Rutgers as it is too big for her. You mentioned she considered TCNJ but would likely not be admitted (and I know it is competitive/selective and you have shared some of your D’s stats in the past and so I agree with this assessment). That leaves several other state universities that are not considered on the level of Rutgers or TCNJ such as Montclair, Ramapo, and Kean. I am not knocking these schools and in fact, I am working with some current applicants to the selective BFA programs at Montclair right now. And I believe a student can succeed at these schools and get a good education. If your D attends one of these (not the flagship U in NJ), as it appears, you can’t compare that experience with a non-elite private (such as Elon, Grinell, Skidmore) or a well regarded flagship type school like U of Maryland, Penn State, etc. </p>
<p>I don’t understand how you feel those schools are not worth the money but by the same token, you seem unsatisfied with how easy the work is and the kinds of non-serious students at your D’s non-flagship, non-selective state U. In my view, if your D wanted a more challenging environment with a concentration of serious motivated type students but is not in the elite college level of applicant, that could be had by attending a non-top private or well regarded public and thus, have been worth the money for a more satisfactory experience. By the same token, it really is the kid who makes or breaks what they get out of their education.</p>
<p>Sour grapes? Why would I have sour grapes when three of my four attended two of the best schools in the country. My daughter is attending a school that she can succeed at. She also succeeded at her prior school but for the money that was being spent I could not justify a fifth year due to her lack of desire to achieve to our satisfaction for the money that was being spent. Four kids is college is very expensive and our out of pocket costs even with four in school at the same time was far more than $50,000 a year. We did not complain but we did have an exepectation of what our kids would get out of the gift we were providing. It was a sacrifice for us and we expect them to do what they are capable of and to take advantage of what is available to them. Thus far the state school has not wowed us. Is my daughter brighter than most…possibly but I highly doubt that she is the exception to the lack of critical thinking that I see coming from her school.</p>
<p>Soozie…As I said she was a late admit to her school and I have never discussed my daughters stats. I have however stated that her IQ was higher than each of my three sons but admittedly not the kid who enjoyed learning. I am not sure where you are getting the stats thing from…not my daughter. I would imagine you read it elsewhere.</p>
<p>Also, Is there no one here that would reconsider a $50,000 school instead of a no name private. I read all the time on this forum about people turning down schools that I would never turn down and sending their kids to state U’s instead. I wonder what the heck are these people thinking…especially if other post indicate that they could afford better for their kid.</p>
<p>Momma, again, I agree with the substance of your views. We told all our kids, “if/when you decide you can’t get up in the morning to get to class, do your problem-sets, write your papers, and do your work to the best of your ability- no problem whatsoever. But you tell us BEFORE we pay tuition for that semester, not afterward. We don’t care what your GPA is as long as you are working to the best of your ability. But if you can’t do that for any reason- you come home and get a job. We aren’t paying for Disney world.”</p>
<p>So I agree with your stance that a kid who isn’t putting in the hours or the effort needs a reality check. And there are two public colleges within commuting distance of my house where I think many of the kids are there to “hang out” until they turn 22 and don’t seem to be burning the midnight oil at the libraries, labs, lecture halls. So again, consistent with your observations.</p>
<p>But I’ve known kids who have been serious academics at a pretty eclectic group of colleges. Some well known, some obscure. And there are non-flagship state colleges that really attract some highly motivated intellectual kids.</p>