<p>BC is obviously a big Roman Catholic university. For a devout atheist (as in, I’m against religion), would it be a bad idea to apply/I won’t fit in? Is religious-ness of the university pretty subdued or is “in-your-face” and most teachers will try to preach the religious values?</p>
<p>Dear Generalgao : Before answering your question, you can do some legwork to start answering your own question. As part of the Boston College core curriculum, you will be required to take two theology courses (usually a one-year sequence). Therefore, the first hurdle for your personal consideration is, as an self-reported atheist, whether you are personally comfortable with that being part of your mandatory program. “Relgious-ness”, “fitting-in”, “in-your-face”, and “teacher preachers” are all much less critical components for your consideration than the curriculum to start. Your views?</p>
<p>Well, I suppose it depends on what those theology courses entail. Do they come across as courses designed to convert with a certain agenda behind them or are they purely historical? Are they geared towards Christianity or is there a diversity of world religions? Perhaps most intriguingly, is there a course focused on the faults of religious philosophies?</p>
<p>Yeah, if you are looking just to bash the Catholic religion during college I wouldn’t apply here. People are accepting here but most everyone is Catholic but they are by any stretch of the imagination evangelicals. Jesuits are really cool and nice people (and yes like you I am not Catholic) and do not try to simply make you Catholic. They focus on giving you a complete well rounded education that yes includes Theology. Theology classes discuss topics such as the bible not as a religious tool necessarily but a historical document and they will admit the Church has had its less than stellar moments. What I am trying to tell you is defiantly apply to BC, it is an awesome school especially because everyone is a genuinely nice person but be aware that your views are in the minority. However, as long as you respect what others believe, they will have no problem with what you believe. Hope this helps!</p>
<p>Dear Generalgao : Please become familiar with the material about the Boston College core in general as this might well help you in your quest to understand more about the university’s education. The following link will provide some insight for you :</p>
<p>[Undergraduate</a> Program - Boston College](<a href=“http://www.bc.edu/offices/stserv/academic/schools/cas/th/undergrad.html#univcore]Undergraduate”>http://www.bc.edu/offices/stserv/academic/schools/cas/th/undergrad.html#univcore)</p>
<p>Note that the specific details covering the theology requirement are expressed below.</p>
<p>Core Options</p>
<p>Two-semester sequence or a 6-credit [Class of 2014]. Students must take both semesters ([or 6 credits] of the same Core course (preferably with the same instructor) to fulfill the requirement and receive Core credit. Students shall select one 2-course sequence [or one 6-credit sequence] from the following:</p>
<p>TH 001-002 Biblical Heritage I and II
TH 016-017 Introduction to Christian Theology I and II
TH 023-024 Exploring Catholicism: Tradition and Transformation
TH 161-162 The Religious Quest I and II </p>
<p>Twelve-credit courses. Students may take these courses to fulfill the Theology requirement. There are two of these Philosophy/Theology courses: PL/TH 090-091 Perspectives on Western Culture (for freshmen only) and PL/TH 088-089 Person and Social Responsibility (for PULSE Program students only).</p>
<p>Now, for some personal responses to your questions which extend beyond the grasp of Theology and more towards education in general : you can certainly partake in courses to complete the theology requirement which will be less rigorous about specific religious traditions and more into the history and evolution of practice. As a Jesuit institution in addition to its Catholic Heritage, Boston College does tend to expand the boundaries of this discourse as opposed to non-Jesuit Catholic teaching institutions. Boston College embraces the notion of philosophy as being a major component of religious studies.</p>
<p>What concerns me personally about your response is that you are seeking a course focused on the “faults of religious philosophies”. It is important that you understand exactly why this comment is troublesome - and it is not based on religious doctrine.</p>
<p>When attending a university, the goal of your education is to expand your spheres of thought and influence, to explore areas which might become formative in your future life, and to bring a better understanding of others into your own understanding of self. In other words, the goal is to learn about more than just those things that you view as currently defining yourself as a High School senior or a later life college freshman.</p>
<p>At Boston College, you will be interacting with faculty, generally very gifted at teaching, who have spent a lifetime dedicated to understanding their respective teaching areas. Their dedication to their craft alone deserves respect and your greater understanding will come from partaking in their classes. Only with understanding and education can truly informed opinions and conclusions be drawn.</p>
<p>Entering Boston College with the premise of “faults of religious philosophies” is fine and you should be respected in that view provided that you have been well educated and truly understand “religious philosophies”. [We could easily apply these same arguments to a structured discussion of Nietzsche’s Theory of Religion or Schopenhauer’s Theory of Man.]</p>
<p>Would you be able to shelve your preconceived notions gathered during your eighteen years or do you have the courage to challenge your current thinking in an academically rigorous manner? Therein, more that anything else I can offer, will you find the answer as to whether you are “right for Boston College” as opposed to the other way around.</p>
<p>First, “devout atheist” strikes me as somewhat oxymoronic, like “jumbo shrimp”.</p>
<p>Second, this subject has been addressed on a number of threads, so a quick read of past threads should help answer your concerns. </p>
<p>Finally, why do you want to apply to BC? BC is a fairly secular school but it does have a Catholic influence and there is the theology requirement (though I see it as philosophy more than religion). If you are a committed atheist then why choose to attend any school that has religious “overtones”? If you hate humidity you don’t move to Florida, so why would an atheist consider going to BC? You are free to be as religious or non-religious as you like at BC, but given the plethora of other fully secular options out there, I find your choice of BC perplexing.</p>
<p>ScottJ:</p>
<p>First, I was so impressed with the quality and content of your post, until I arrived at your last 2 paragraphs.</p>
<p>As someone who has a daughter (a Catholic) applying to BC, I was really, really impressed with your logical reasoning until you lost me at the very end.</p>
<p>Looking back at the student’s question, first I thought it took a lot of courage for someone in his/her position to ask this question. And of course, to even want to consider coming to BC and paying some big bucks.</p>
<p>Second, and most importantly, I believe the clear implication was the poster was an open-minded person, and just wanted to make sure ‘religion’ would not be thrust on him/her by BC. I quote from the original post "Is religious-ness of the university pretty subdued or is “in-your-face” and most teachers will try to preach the religious values? "</p>
<p>I’m not applying to BC, but I’m going to try to put myself in the poster’s shoes. Now, I’m not against religion, but I’m an agnostic. Frankly, I don’t know (and I’m just over 50), and I would think pretty well educated. Believe me, nothing would please me more than to have proof of a Creator(s), and subscribe to religion as humans on earth see it. But, as a science guy, I’m unable to reconcile things, and so I’m not quite sold on it. Of course, one could argue that the gap is with me/in me. And, that’s fine. I’m comfortable with that. But, please don’t try to convert me, or push religion on me, is what I would say to my own daughter, or my wife, or any of the other members of my family, or BC.</p>
<p>So, the question really is, as the poster asks, will you or BC try to foist it on me (by preaching), proactively make me feel insecure, or shunt me aside? The poster is saying, if you’ll leave me alone on that score, I’d like to come to BC to learn (science, business, whatever). Do you ScottJ, only want non-atheists at BC, and if you have a non-atheist will you try to convert one, or preach to them, or be ‘in-your-face’ about religion. Well, some religions do recommend preaching to convert the non-believers, you know?</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, everything else you said in your post, should point to a person of inquiry and debate, and I would submit that such an inquiry or debate, would be rather incomplete, without agnostics and atheists in such classes. So, I would have BC would go out the way to seek people like the poster, who is brave enough to want to go to BC, rather than a non-Jesuit or non-religiously affiliated college.</p>
<p>Dear quantman07 : As your focus was on my last two paragraphs, please allow me to replay the content, paraphrased, for the benefit of our readers.</p>
<p>Regarding “…Entering Boston College with the premise of “faults of religious philosophies” is fine and you should be respected in that view provided that you have been well educated and truly understand “religious philosophies”. …” : Provided that the poster has been educated in the area of religious philosophies, it is fine to draw your own conclusions of fault. However, to enter Boston College with that preconceived view will potentially cloud one’s ability to think critically about the subject. In summary, has one truly been educated in the field to draw that conclusion?</p>
<p>Regarding “…Would you be able to shelve your preconceived notions gathered during your eighteen years or do you have the courage to challenge your current thinking in an academically rigorous manner? Therein, more that anything else I can offer, will you find the answer as to whether you are “right for Boston College” as opposed to the other way around.” : The critical point is whether one is comfortable in an environment which challenges how you think, not just whether you agree or disagree with the topic at hand. Boston College will force one to challenge how and why you have drawn your conclusions, not just what those views might be.</p>
<p>As has been well documented in many other threads, Boston College will not try to change anyone’s religious affiliation. Our last two paragraphs wanted to get away from the Theology discussion and focus on the core assets developed in the Boston College core liberal arts education requirements. Our references to philosophers attempted to further underscore the divide between critical thought and religious studies. If we lost anyone along the way, we hope that this has clarified our purpose in posting.</p>
<p>Boston College prides itself on diversity of thought. Therefore, you would be correct in your view that Boston College would academically welcome those who view a given topic differently whether it be an interpretation of history, current events, or topics which might provoke greater passions.</p>
<p>Yeah, I was looking more for whether or not BC would attempt to promote religion as opposed to merely looking at unbiasedly in their required courses. I feel that in order to do so, unless it’s a straight factually-based timeline history course, there would need to be content mentioning both the benefits and detriments of religion to society. In regards to my own religious views, I do not pretend to be an expert, and I am positive that the BC professors are far better educated than I in the topic of theology. However, I have done enough of my own research to come up with an educated view of religion based upon science and my own philosophies, which I would rather not turn mention in fear of turning this into a theological debate thread. That said, I will most likely enter the class with the mindset that my religious views will not be changed, especially since my non-belief is based upon the lack of evidence to convince me of believing in any deity-based religion. I suppose it’s a matter of whether this “critical thought” involves questioning my own beliefs or coming to an understanding of why others believe what they do.</p>
<p>OP:</p>
<p>An atheist was on the Student Panel the day I attended. He said that he found BC to be very “welcoming of people of all faiths, and no faiths…” What attracted him to BC was the focus of key aspects of the Jesuit tradition, i.e., education of the whole person, service and community, not religion per se. </p>
<p>As others have pointed out, you can fulfill the religion requirement several ways, including special Frosh and Soph courses, the latter of which tends toward Philosophy of Religion. Yes, Catholicism and Christianity are elements, but so are discussions/analyses of the writings of great philosophers, including those that questioned religion.</p>
<p>To fulfill the theology requirement, I would recommend one of the Religious Quest courses, which all compare Christianity to one or more of a number of religions, including Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. Rather than pushing certain beliefs on you, these classes simply map out the traditions, values, and histories of these religions and and personal interpretations or opinions of the religions, whether they praise or criticize them, are encouraged in class discussions. Another aspect of the course is taking ideas from these religions and applying them in a religious or non-religious way to your life. Students in these classes (and all other theology classes) have a number of views and if anything, more students–although they technically identify with one religion–are not that religious. Religion is definitely not shoved in your face and professors welcome all kinds of views because they just make the class discussion that much better. </p>
<p>As for religion on the campus as a whole, while some students are very religious, most of the students aren’t. If you want to seek out religion, it’s here; if you choose to, you will have little to no interaction with it. </p>
<p>Therefore, I can confidently tell you that religion should not be a factor in your decision to apply to or attend BC.</p>
<ol>
<li>Thanks BlueBayou and NRG21B for your input. That’s what I thought BC would be, and how its people would act. As someone who went to a Catholic High School and a Catholic college for a shorter time, I never felt that anyone shoved religion down my throat or tried to convert me. I had no problem marrying a Catholic or my daughter being raised a Cathlolic. On balance, even though I am agnostic, and have been agnostic since at least the age of ten, I married a Catholic, and my daughter has been raised Catholic. She likes religion, it works for her, and I’m truly happy about that. I’ve never ever even remotely tried to convert her, try to get her even look at or consider agnostism, or even discuss my reasons for this view. I truly respect genuine people of real faith and actually admire them for what they possess, something maybe I lack? I’ve always just told my daughter I’m a science guy, and when she grows up she needs to figure it out for herself.</li>
</ol>
<p>Indeed, I had great discussions about religion and had some truly fantastic teachers. Unfortunately, I wish I knew then what I know now, for I would have been even more appreciative in my youth for everything they and the Catholic school did for me. This is why, even though I am agnostic, I really think it would be great for my daughter to consider schools like BC and Georgetown. It’s really about caring teachers and educators. And, to me that’s what’s really important.</p>
<ol>
<li>ScottJ, I’m not sure if you are with BC, if you are, I was not aware. So, please take this in the spirit with which I offer this.</li>
</ol>
<p>In your last post you said " Provided that the poster has been educated in the area of religious philosophies, it is fine to draw your own conclusions of fault. However, to enter Boston College with that preconceived view will potentially cloud one’s ability to think critically about the subject. In summary, has one truly been educated in the field to draw that conclusion? "</p>
<p>I agree. However, I would take exactly what you have said and go further and apply you very words to agnostism and atheism. Perhaps, they could all be looked at, in the abstract, as potentially emanating from the same primordial soup. It’s not difficult to see thesis/antithesis, in matter (antimatter), in the atom, or just a whole host of science and non-science areas/concepts. So, BC and religion could be said to cloud its ability to think critically about these subjects, in the absence of the anti-thesis. So, in summary, one can potentially ask if BC and religion have been truly educated in the field (which contains the primordial soup of religion and non-religion) to draw its conclusions without the benefit of Kepler and the time it took to accept Heliocentrism and how some of those people were treated.</p>
<p>I realize I have strayed too far on this board. My apologies and I will try to remain silent and just observe.</p>
<p>I would ask the OP to define “in your face”. Is a crucifix in a classroom “in your face”? What about the fact that the President of the school is a Jesuit priest? </p>
<p>I am most decidedly not challenging the OP’s atheism, but you cannot ignore that the basis of a BC Jesuit education is informed debate taking place on a Catholic affiliated campus. Will it be “in your face” if you are required to defend your position in a theology class? How will you react when you are assigned the classic educational technique of researching and defending a position in direct opposition to your own? </p>
<p>I don’t doubt that the OP has a vast library of data to support his position, but that’s not the point. As Scottj stated, if the OP comes to BC with preconceived notions that he is unwilling to question, then a good portion of the Jesuit educational experience will be wasted on him. I attended BC a long time ago (I think the Keplers and their telescopes lived next door to me in Cleveland Circle), but unless things have changed radically, you will be expected to question, research, question again and then defend your positions. That’s not trying to convince you you’re wrong, that’s scholarship. </p>
<p>So my question remains: If the OP is entrenched in his position and is unwilling to entertain even the possibility that there may be flaws in his arguments, why choose BC?</p>
<p>The idea behind applying to BC is that it provides quality education outside of theology and it’s location is in-state. Beyond that, its Common App supplement is easy, to put it simply. You say that I will be expected to question, research, question again and then defend my positions - is that because of my atheism, or just in general - meaning, will that same expectation be applied to Roman Catholics, or will their opinions just be accepted? If I (or atheists in general) am singled out for my views, then I don’t believe BC will be a good college for me. But if that same comprehensively questioning standard is applied people of all faiths equally, then there is no issue.</p>
<p>“if the OP comes to [fill in college name] with preconceived notions that he is unwilling to question, then a good portion of the …educational experience will be wasted…”</p>
<p>There, I fixed it. </p>
<p>The point being that every 17/18 year-old has “preconceived” notions, which may be religion or politics, or economics, or some social policy. In certain cases, and certain disciplines, a college will not challenge the student at all, such as a liberal taking econ from a Keynesian prof. Or a ‘green’ teenager, taking any Enviro college course. In such case, the course only reinforces the student’s preconceived notions, does it not? (And where is the challenge in THAT?)</p>
<p>Moreover, theology is only 2 of 38 courses for graduation. Perhaps the OP is really excited about the other 36 courses, not to mention D1 sports, school spirit, financial aid, the welcoming, social environment that BC offers…</p>
<p>bluebayou you make a valid point except that it overlooks that the OP specifically asks about how atheists are treated at BC in general. He didn’t bring up the theology classes, scottj pointed them out. My interpretation of his opening question was one about the general social and academic environment at BC not 2 specific classes. </p>
<p>Generalgao,</p>
<p>First of all, BC provides a quality education including theology. That you find no particular value in the subject doesn’t alter their expertise in the field. Second, my point about research and defense was a general one based on my experiences at BC. While there will be classes wherein you will be spoon-fed material, many will require you to present opinions and research and then defend. There is a simple premise to the Jesuit education: an unexamined position is a weak one that is unlikely to withstand rigorous debate. If you haven’t analyzed all sides of an argument (for and against) your opposition will certainly find its flaws.</p>
<p>Third, I want to point out that your presented definition of atheism is incorrect.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>An atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of a deity, i.e., God. That is not the same as being against religion. There are many people who believe in a deity outside organized religion. There are others who cannot accept the deities as they are presented in differing religions. Neither are atheists. An atheist believes there is no God, not that God exists but that the human constructs to worship that God are invalid.</p>
<p>Finally, your success and happiness at BC will have much to do with your attitude going in; if you choose to interpret every challenge as an assault on your beliefs, you will find BC to be a frustrating place. The reality is that most everyone will never know that you are an atheist unless you tell them. At that point the vast majority won’t care. If you choose to tell people and then are asked to explain your stand you can either intelligently defend your position or choose to be offended. You’re far more likely to be ostracized for being strident and unbending than you are for any beliefs you hold.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, if you were open to the intellectual challenges that self-questioning brings I think BC would be a great experience. If you choose to interpret every question as a slight (real or imagined) then you’ll probably be miserable. Of course, as bluebayou and I have pointed out, many of these same educational opportunities exist at other schools as well. Only you can decide if the “risk” of attending a Catholic college is worth the advantages.</p>
<p>deleted post.</p>
<p>Generalgao–</p>
<p>I am sensing maybe you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder regarding religions. No one at BC will care that you are an atheist and no one will try to force Catholicism upon you. You won’t be singled out for anything. But you will have to make choices from the same core requirements as anyone else.</p>
<p>What the Jesuits will do is teach you to think. And to think critically, which you do not have much experince of at this time in your life. You may well remain an atheist forever, but at least you will be a better informed one. </p>
<p>If what these other psoters are saying about Jesuit education threatens you, then don’t apply to BC and save the admissions office the trouble of reading your file. Lord knows they have enough other applications to deal with.</p>