<p>Will participate in sport. Princeton for $40K/year (some financial aid) or Duke for $10K/year (large athletic scholarship).
Pros and cons please</p>
<p>Does your daughter hope to go to grad school afterwards? $120K saved can go a long way. Is your daughter an olympic-hopeful? I would think P > D if advancing as a competitive athlete in the sport is on her mind. What’s the vibe she gets from the coaches and upperclassmen?</p>
<p>The weather in NC is beautiful. Pton students love being there.</p>
<p>^I’m sorry, I’m just a little confused by your post. Why would Princeton be better than Duke for advancing as a competitive athlete? It is very hard to get noticed by professional teams if you’re a good athlete in the Ivy League and even if you do, the question always gets raised of whether you’re good because you have little competition or if you can actually survive pro sports. Also, your last two sentences confused me a little. Why do Princeton students love being in NC? </p>
<p>Also, usually decent students can get tuition waivers for grad school (PhD programs), so they go for virtually nothing anyway. At least that’s how I understand it. </p>
<p>OP, in my opinion, I think that Duke is the way to go if we’re talking about a big name school-recruited, capable of placing nationally athlete here. Duke, due to the higher level of competition, would foster growth as an athlete and make dreams of playing professionally a reality. On the other hand, if we’re talking about an athlete who does not have dreams of playing professionally and who wants solid job connections upon receiving a degree, Princeton may be optimal. Duke is a great school, but I believe that the value of an Ivy League network, especially in finance careers, is invaluable. But that’s my opinion. Take it as you will.</p>
<p>This is a no brainer. I hope you end up going with Duke because you’ll be saving a lot of money. If money is no problem and you want to pay an extra $30,000 a year, then go with Princeton. In my opinion, I don’t believe Princeton is worth it for an extra $120,000. Duke is an amazing school, and you would be given numerous opportunities to excel in what you want to do.</p>
<p>How does the “need blind” financial aid work at Princeton? would that apply in your situation?</p>
<p>She’ll get a bit of FA at Princeton as a sibling is also in college. By the last year, she’ll pay full freight since she’ll be the only one in college. It should average to about $40-45K/year. Duke has offered her an 80% scholarship for her sport. It’s very difficult to turn down the IVY education. Wondering if the IVY is worth the $120K difference.</p>
<p>I want to add something to the comments already made. It’s a subject near and dear to my heart. Note: D was a DI athlete and later transferred to a lower level (athletics) school, also a top 25 National university.</p>
<p>The first consideration must be academics, because there is no sport in female athletics (with a few exceptions at the absolute pinnacle of basketball, soccer, track and field) where you can make a living long term. [I’m assuming that you can afford the tuition payments at Princeton while still providing for your retirement, etc.] I’m sure your daughter is very bright and capable academically, no doubt mature, so you and she must do an honest assessment of which school she prefers. Even though she is an athlete, I would advise approaching this decision more or less as a regular student. </p>
<p>Things to consider:<br>
- Princeton is Princeton. Duke is great, but most would still pick Princeton in just about any field.
- Duke is ACC. Unless the sport is fencing, your daughter will be playing in one of the most competitive athletic conferences in the country. There will be surprising (dismaying?) demands placed on your daughter’s time for training, traveling, and games. She will be playing against Florida State, Clemson, NC State, NC, etc. All very elite athletic schools in most sports. The time commitment at Princeton will also be great, but it is the Ivy league, and the league has an organized approach to managing the time commitment. Plus, there is absolutely no doubt at Princeton that academics come first. So many coaches play lip service to this, but with their jobs on the line, when the going gets rough, guess what gets bumped first?
- Take a look at the academic majors of the players on the rosters of the sport right now. Any engineering majors? Pre-med? Computer Science? If all the ladies are liberal arts or psychology or the equivalent then you should be worried that not enough time is given to the girls for academics. I don’t mean to denigrate liberal arts, but the other majors typically require more time and flexibility for problem sets, labs, exams, etc. If none of the girls are picking these majors, it might indicate that a variety of subtle pressures are placed on the girls to pick less time consuming majors.<br>
- There is sure to be some emotion here. Your daughter, and in fact your family, did not get to the point where your daughter is a recruited DI athlete without a lot of time, money, emotion, energy. She’s no doubt had a lot of success, and it’s natural to want to continue that good feeling in college. But you’ve got to realize that this is whole new ball game both academically and athletically. You must, must try to look at the big picture.<br>
- If you look at this as objectively as possible, and Duke is still the pick, then go for it 100%.</p>
<p>Anyway, good luck with your choice. Your daughter has two splendid schools to pick from.</p>
<p>To clarify my post: OP is speaking of her daughter, a recruited rower. That’s why I suggested that Ivy competition may be a better springboard if she envisions herself continuing with it after college.</p>
<p>Also:
The weather in NC is beautiful* while* Pton students love being at Princeton.</p>
<p>I asked my rising sophomore son what he thought when asked this question and he said Duke is also a great school both academically and athletically and for the cost difference he thinks Duke would be the best bet. But having said that he really, really loves Princeton. </p>
<p>I’d suggest a visit to both schools (while in session, not in the summer) to see what you and your daughter think about the campus vibe. It’s not a decision to be made lightly as she will be spending four years wherever she chooses. You cannot transfer into Princeton after first year so the decision must be made at the outset.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. I’m grateful for the thoughtful responses. It really gets down to student debt. Over the course a lifetime, is the $100+K debt worth it. Maybe yes, maybe no. Honestly, and I think every parent will understand, it comes down to a gut wrenching sense of “bummer” that we’re not able to just swing it. She/we may opt for the debt - may not. Sigh!</p>
<p>If money wasn’t an issue, which would your daughter prefer?</p>
<p>S just graduated from Princeton as a student/athlete; D is a rising junior non-scholarship s/a at Duke. Each is happy with their choice. We initially thought we’d be full pay at both schools, but both are surprisingly generous with need based aid. Still, Princeton’s aid is significantly better, so don’t completely write off the prospect of future aid.</p>
<p>One other thing to keep in mind: Athletic scholarships aren’t guaranteed. What happens if your daughter loses interest in her sport or decides it interferes too much with her studies?</p>
<p>And what about potential injuries? Would her athletic scholarship continue if she could no longer compete?</p>
<p>Duke!!! You would save so much money plus it has a good reputation</p>
<p>Conventional wisdom will tell you that a kid shouldn’t take on more than $20,000 - $30,000 of debt for any college. I think one could make an argument that Princeton was worth incurring $100,000 in debt for compared to lots of other colleges. But not Duke. There’s just no way, on a rational basis, one could justify paying three times as much for Princeton as for Duke, when the value Duke provides can’t possibly be less than, say, 90% of Princeton, and probably a good deal more than that.</p>
<p>The real issue is the one raised by sherpa: What if the discount at Duke is only one year or two years, and Duke would cost more after that because of loss of scholarship and less favorable need-based aid formulas?</p>
<p>I’m assuming, since she is athlete, that she has visited both. What are her thoughts? I can understand your dilemma. In your shoes, I would choose Duke. Both are excellent schools obviously. I agree with what JHS wrote above. I don’t think I could justify 100k in loans for undergrad, even for Princeton (especially if there is a chance she may want to go to graduate school.) At any rate, it is really a personal decision. Congrats to you D on her accomplishments; whichever choice she makes, I’m sure she will have an amazing college experience.</p>
<p>The OP has probably already made here mind, but what puzzles me is, why $100k in loans? That means borrowing $100 k above the parental / student EFC? Princeton claims that it meets 100% of demonstrated need with grants, maybe some work study and student contributions. No loans. So why the $100 k? Are the the OP and Princeton that far apart on the EFC?</p>
<p>Demonstrated need = roughly cost of attending Princeton - family contribution calculation (based on income + assets/savings) - student contribution (outside scholarships + summer work). All demonstrated need based on this calculation is offered in the form of grants. </p>
<p>Since the family contribution amount is Princeton’s calculation (not necessarily the family’s) there can be a large discrepancy between what the family feels they are willing/able to afford and what Princeton says they should contribute. Part of Princeton’s contribution is an offer of on campus employment during the academic year where students work several hours a week to help offset costs. If a student feels they cannot work throughout the year they may apply for a loan that is interest free until after graduation. </p>
<p>Princeton also offers the option to parents to apply for low interest loans for up to the full amount of the family contribution that are paid over a longer period of time (up to 14 years).</p>
<p>I disagree that Princeton offers a stronger network to the OP than Duke. Princeton doesn’t have any professional programs like a Business School, Law School, or Medical School so it doesn’t have as many alumni in fields like Consulting, Finance, Government, Health Sciences, or Public Policy as Duke does.</p>
<p>Paying $100,000 to attend any school over Duke would be ludicrous. If this was a weak state flagship school we were talking about, then that would be a different story.</p>
<p>^Although Princeton does not have professional programs, alumni still go into fields like “Consulting, Finance, Government, Health Sciences, or Public Policy”. Or did you think people just graduate from Princeton and don’t go into those fields. I would argue that Princeton offers very strong networking for those going into consulting, finance, government, and public policy. It is well known that Wall Street firms recruit out of Ivy League schools. Princeton grads funnel into Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc. every year. MBA programs also generally want to see work experience in applicants. For instance, Harvard essentially requires pre-MBA work experience - those college seniors admitted are admitted on a “deferred standing” understanding. Graduating from an Ivy League college is immensely helpful in getting those finance jobs, especially. </p>
<p>As for government and public policy, three sitting Supreme Court justices are Princeton alumni. Numerous future statesmen graduate from Princeton’s Woodrow Wilson School every year. So yes, while these alumni in government and public policy may not have graduated from any professional school at Princeton, Princeton is still their alma mater. And they love it - the rate of giving back attests to this fact. </p>
<p>Now, whether paying $100,000 to attend Princeton over Duke is worth it, that’s up to the OP. Only an individual can make that decision and that individual must bear the consequences of the decision.</p>
<p>Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan recruit from a wide range of schools including the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, University of Chicago, MIT, Northwestern, Berkeley, Michigan, Virginia, etc. etc. That hardly distinguishes Princeton from a number of other schools.</p>
<p>A lot of Princetonians do go into these fields obviously but there are fewer alumni than from other schools like Penn, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Duke, etc. due to a lack of professional programs at Princeton.</p>
<p>I would encourage you to take a look at the following two articles: </p>
<p>[Ivy</a> League is the best route to a job on Wall Street - Jun. 2, 2011](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/01/news/economy/ivy_league_advantage.fortune/index.htm]Ivy”>Ivy League is the best route to a job on Wall Street - Jun. 2, 2011)</p>
<p>[Wall</a> Street steps in when Ivy League fails - Washington Post](<a href=“http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-02-16/business/35445595_1_graduates-wall-street-students-end]Wall”>http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-02-16/business/35445595_1_graduates-wall-street-students-end)</p>
<p>The first is about research that shows college matters when you’re looking at positions for the top finance firms - specifically, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Wharton (UPenn), and Stanford. If you want distinction, here you have it in the second article. The percentage of Princeton grads who go into finance is more than double the percentage from Harvard or Yale. </p>
<p>While Princeton has no professional schools, it still places a higher number of its graduates in finance positions than its peers. You are also ignoring the fact that because Princeton does not have professional schools, its graduates go to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. professional schools. What happens to a Princeton alum who goes to Harvard Business School after completing a couple of years with a finance firm straight out of college? Does he stop being a Princeton alumnus?</p>