Athletic Affirmative Action

I read a satirical article about affirmative action in athletics to give underrepresented Asians a fair chance in athletics. Asians should roll that ball. :wink:

As an Asian who is painfully aware of the discrimination that African Americans have faced in our society, I find discussion of this by Asians to be tone deaf at best. The humor is non-existent for me.

worryhurry411 sometimes humor is a great way to address terrible issues. on a serious note
in the case of discrimination against asians at elitist schools there are no easy answers, it seems to just be “ok” to discriminate at those schools
 since i doubt it will change anytime soon, I suggest students who are of asian descent (the small sub-group that needs the validation of an ivy degree
or Stanford u of Chicago etc) they become enlightened that there are 1000x of colleges in america that can offer them an awesome education often times in a much more collaborative/supportive environment and that getting the ivy or other elitist diploma in noway makes you a better person, more educated or confers validation on you or your family .

I would like to clarify
I meant the small sub group within the asian american college pool that think the world ends without a diploma from above mentioned schools. every asian american college applicant does not fit that stereotype. (a lot do , most do not)

True. Rosa Park should’ve called uber, instead of standing up for her right to sit in a seat on her bus.

Racism is racism, no matter why one thinks it’s justified to challenge it in one situation but not in another.

@zobroward Then why not send affirmative action candidates to those 1000x great schools and let merit candidates in who really want validation of those tippy top colleges, have qualifications and ready to take loans or spend last penny of their savings to pay tuition.

I mean let every kid get admitted on merit and not judge them for genes they inherited or zip code storks threw them in and then wave tuition for ones who can’t pay or give them work study options if they don’t want hand outs.

worryhurry, who is going to protest for the asians students who lost out? the asian students who got in? (not going to happen) if they do that they will face the wrath of the SJW movement at colleges. I am not justifying the discrimination in any way
what I am saying is nobody is going to take up the cause of asians who were wrongfully passed up for admissions at the ivy/u of Chicago/Stanford . so the best plan IMO is just bypass those schools all together. find a great all around school that best fits you 
 go , grow and learn! (sounds a little cheesy but it is true) and forget the elitist places
they do not want you anyway.

WH: Like you said, there are 1000s of schools that happily admit kids on your definition of merit alone (transcripts test scores). But for those colleges that have expanded definitions of merit and admit whom they want in order to fulfill their own institutional needs and visions – who are you to decry them for it?

If you don’t like their policies, don’t apply. But that’s the rub isn’t it? They ARE excellent schools. They face record breaking applications yearly. I would state plainly that part of this excellence and attraction to students (and grad schools and recruiters) IS how they assemble their student bodies.

You’re arguing that this country’s top schools turn 180 degrees and revert to admissions policies like IIT or Tokyo University???

Why would Fortune 500 rather recruit at Yale than at Bob Jones?

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

“and admit whom they want in order to fulfill their own institutional needs and visions – who are you to decry them for it?”

who should decry them for discrimination? you are joking
? that is kind of like a statement from a George Orwell book.

" I would state plainly that part of this excellence and attraction to students (and grad schools and recruiters) IS how they assemble their student bodies."

I am sorry but people apply to these elitist schools for validation
I want to go to Harvard!..why? because it is the best.

can you extrapolate
response 
I like how they assemble their student body! what does that mean?? oh they deny qualified Asian students admission because they are Asian. oh cool beans that is a place I want to go to school
ummm no that is absurd.

it is the blue chip ,name brand validation. (luckily the majority of high school students who graduate every year are not in that shark feeding frenzy.

WorryHurry, this country has a history. And as a famous writer once said, our history it is not even past.

It seems like some are suggesting that holistic admissions practices equal racism. Don’t think that is the case at all. There are other ways to define merit other than test scores and gpa. Once an applicant hits a certain level of score/gpa, other factors come into play.

“this country has a history. And as a famous writer once said, our history it is not even past.”
what does that even mean?
which country,society etc etc
ever in the history of the world was a utopia? that is just silly talk.

wisteria100, to each his own
you can be for discrimination
that is your right. but understand other people can be opposed to it. that is their right.

I’ve been a Scout leader and volunteer for various local children’s groups for many years. One of our favorite projects is to buy food and take it to soup kitchens to prepare and serve. Another is to adopt families for the holidays and buy holiday gifts for them. We shop together, so once we get to the store the children take different lists and split into groups to find the items. I’ve noticed the unhappy tendency for sales clerks to hover near any of my groups that are made up of African American and/or Hispanic students. They don’t do that to my Asian or Caucasian students. If I speak to the children and make it obvious they’re with me (I’m Caucasian), the clerks quickly find something else to do.

I would hazard to guess that any adversity my daughter has faced pales in comparison to what these children face every single day. If they’re accepted to an elite college and my daughter isn’t, their personal stories may well be part of the decision. If we could behave as a society perhaps they wouldn’t have those stories to tell. I wonder if people who think they’re being racially discriminated against by colleges are working within their communities to end racism that’s directed at others. Or is racism only a problem when you perceive that it’s being directed at you?

“The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”

William Faulkner, “Requiem for a Nun”

great quote

I am an Asian American and I agree that there should be more programs encouraging Asian Americans to be physically active and be involved in sports. I also think that this issue is not related to affirmative action in college admissions.

I thought this topic was going to be about admissions spots held for athletes.

It may be absurd but that’s exactly what’s happening. Very, very few are boycotting these schools they deem to consider race in admissions in a way that disadvantages their race.

As for the OP, I think Harvard would love more Jeremy Lins if it could get them. But the original article referred to isn’t linked here so I can’t read it.

If you are suggesting that Korean or Indian kids don’t face any discrimination, Syrian or Sirilankan families don’t struggle as broke immigrants, Muslim or Jewish kids never face any prejudice, then probably you need to venture outside of your bubble once in a while.

As far as rights of private colleges to pick whoever they want or ration seats differently to diffrent races, aren’t any diffrent than rights of a Caucasian golf club owner to serve races he likes “holistically” or a straight bakery owner’s right to deny selling to a gay customer.

OP and @zobroward I’m not advocating wanton racial discrimination. However, I’m fully aware that colleges can holistically admit categories of students according to their own criteria as long as it doesn’t explicitly violate race quotas (cf. Bakke) by their category admissions practices.

Some colleges will have unofficial target goals for various sub groups every year. For institutional purposes, they’ve already set aside X number for recruited athletes, Y number for less-than-stellar development admits, Z number for internationals, etc. Whatever that number for African Americans, one can only guess. And these are flexible goals too. These benchmarks are created long before any admissions season.

If an applicant happens to fall under one of the sub-group categories, he/she will be evaluated in that context. For example, let’s say there are 5 womens soccer recruits of similar skill and utility to the team next year. Coach has 3 actual slots available. 1 recruit has stellar stats. No brainer. She’s in. Of the remaining four, one is slightly ahead of the other three who are equal. She gets in. For the remaining three, their stats are about the 20th percentile of entering freshmen. Coin flip. One gets an offer, the other two don’t stand out in comparision with the RD pool and are eventually rejected.

This same scenario plays out with every sub-group. Musicians, Internationals, celebrities, minority groups, legacies, etc.

The fact is, these slots were NEVER available to those outside these categories to begin with. Who does the “mediocre” stat African American kid who is accepted push out? Another African American applicant who is less desirable. Just like the soccer player takes the place of less desirable soccer players.

I’ll leave Affirmative Action to others to mull – but for applicants who don’t fall under these sub-categories – the relative statistical strength within those groups doesn’t really affect them.

If you feel slighted at the avg SATs of any particular sub-group and wants to apply to a pure meritocracy evaluation system, they certainly are not without options. As a matter of fact, +80% of American colleges practice this. Send in your transcripts and scores – voila. Your answer is given.

As I said before: you can’t have your cake and eat it too. The so-called “top schools” get criticized for their murky holistic evaluation methods and “soft quotas” or set-asides or affirmative action – or “category admissions” as I’ve outlined above. People decry the unfairness of it and are ready to charge the ramparts to get them to alter the very method they chose to get them the great student bodies they possess. They want them to turn into Seoul University or IIT. Our country’s best school trustees and alumni think otherwise – and the USNWR standings (which I admit is trash) reward them.

I’ll add this: those of you who are decrying category admissions. What then do you say about US colleges who place quotas on International acceptances? Isn’t the limitation on this sub-set an “unfair” limit? Why shouldn’t the best and brightest of India, Singapore, China, Russia and S Korea have equal access? Shouldn’t their 2360 SAT applicants be able to nudge out your Chinese-American or Pakistani immigrant local valedictorian? Do you also carry the banner of “MORE International students at Ivy schools”??

But if a legacy, URM or athlete gets to compete amongst other legacies, URMs or athletes – they are immediately targeted for “taking away” the seat of a “more qualified” White or Asian applicant. Inconsistent much?

Final caveat: I’m Chinese American and the year I was accepted to multiple Ivies, my test scores probably put me in about the 30th percentile of the admitted classes. I’m 100% positive I got a spot when statistically more qualified Asians and caucasians were rejected over me. I was the beneficiary of holistic admissions. This colors how I see it too, to be blunt.