Auto Insurance for Non-Driver?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I live in CA and have had auto insurance through 21st Century for over 15 years. Around my son’s 17th birthday, we received a form titled, “Driver Exclusion Form” to exclude our son from auto insurance. We thought this was strange as our son has never applied for a permit or license and does not hold either one - he is not a “driver”. The letter said that we needed to sign the form or our son would be added to our policy. We got busy before Christmas and never called about it. (My bad)</p>

<p>Friday we received our bill for additional premium to be paid. I called on Monday and I explained that my son is not a driver, so signing their form letter was inaccurate and we do not knowingly sign anything inaccurate. They explained to me that if I do not sign the document, I will get charged a additional premium for my non-driver son. I asked if they had another form, and they said they didn’t. I asked if I could send a personal letter explaining our situation. They said they would refuse to accept it. I also asked if I could alter the form letter so that it was accurate, they said it would also be refused. I was basically told that driver meant any person of driving age (in a tone insinuating that I was an idiot for not already knowing this). I asked how a reasonable person was to know this, and was told, “I’m telling you how to interpret it” - as if they are there for my welfare, not the company’s. And this was the supervisor, since the first person to answer the phone was completely rude. </p>

<p>At this point I acknowledged that this might not be cleared up by Thursday (the due date on the new bill) and asked if my policy would lapse if I did not pay or sign the form. They said yes, but I would have a grace period. I paid for 6 months for my husband and I - we have over 4 months left.</p>

<p>I am flabbergasted to be treated with so much disrespect and disdain. I am appalled that an insurance company’s representatives could be so rude and condescending. And it’s a bit Big Brother to have them send me this stuff out of the blue.</p>

<p>I called the CA Insurance Office to ask about another form since the company rep had said that this was a government approved document and I had to sign this and nothing else would do. They said that they do not have forms for insurance, that it was probably an ISO form and I would have to take it up with my company. He acknowledged that some insurance companies will charge you for a non-driver if you do not sign a waiver. What good is an Insurance Commissioner’s office if they let insurance companies charge you for non-drivers?</p>

<p>My husband and I have decided to send back the signed form, with changes made to make it accurate. That way we can either get this resolved (thus giving me more time to find a new auto insurance company) or get a refusal in writing. </p>

<p>Anyway, has anyone else here encountered anything like this? How did you resolve it. Any words of wisdom are appreciated.</p>

<p>(I’m sorry this is so long, I appreciate any of you that took the time to read it all.)</p>

2

<p>Hmmm–California resident here–State Farm Insurance–</p>

<p>Can’t say that I’ve ever had to sign a form excluding my non-driving kids from our policy. My kids (both female) didn’t get licenses until they were 18 and 19, so they were never on the policy during their high school years while they were living at home. When they went off to college, they didn’t have cars, so we didn’t have them on the policy once they had their licenses. When they come home for vacations and drive our cars, our insurance agent said that they would be covered as “occasional drivers” under our policy.</p>

<p>Some insurance companies may insist that all kids actually be on the policy and they will not cover them as “occasional drivers” that aren’t named in the policy–in order to do that, they need you to sign the Driver Exclusion form to specifically exclude them from policy coverage. </p>

<p>About these Driver Exclusion Forms:</p>

<p>"It is usually attached when the underwriter is aware of a problem driver who might be allowed to use an insured automobile (e.g., the child of the named insured) in the absence of this endorsement. "</p>

<p>I guess at 21 Century, all teenage boys must be considered “problem drivers.” LOL!</p>

<p>It sounds like the insurance company is trying to protect itself from the situation in which your son gets his license during the 6 month period of the policy and then drives your car, even though he is not named on the policy itself. Absent the Driver Exclusion Form, he would be covered by the insurance as an “occasional driver” if he should cause any damage in case of accident. </p>

<p>They want to be paid for the risk they are taking or don’t want to be at risk. By having you sign the Driver Exclusion Form, he won’t be covered if he gets his license and drives your car during the policy period.</p>

<p>Things certainly could have been explained better to you and in a more polite manner. I would check out other insurers (ones that have actual agents you can talk to in person). If you have insurance, it’s an easy matter to switch to a new insurer and get some money back from the old one for what is left on the policy. If you let your insurance lapse, then it’s much more expensive to switch.</p>

3

<p>I would call the insurance company again, ask to speak with the supervisor, and him or her them that you are going to inform both the Better Business Bureau and the Attorney General’s office to alert them to this practice. That should get someone’s attention.</p>

4

<p>I think you are fighting the wrong battle here, and I doubt the Insurance Department, the Attorney General, or the Better Business Bureau is going to be terribly sympathetic.</p>

<p>Your son lives with you. He is 17. He may not have a driver’s license now, but he can probably get a learner’s permit with a couple hours’ effort on any business day, and he could receive a license within a short time afterwards. In many/most cases, I’m sure, 17-year-olds in households with cars get licensed and occasionally drive the family’s car . . . with a safety record more like that of 17-year-old drivers than that of middle-aged parents. The insurance renews annually, and in this situation things can and do change in a period of months.</p>

<p>So it’s not at all crazy for the insurance company to ask you to fish or cut bait at the time of renewal on the question of whether your son will be excluded from the policy, even though he is not currently a driver. And it’s also not crazy for them to assume, if you refuse to exclude him, that he probably WILL be driving and that you may be trying to game the system. It’s not as if they made it terribly difficult for you to make the exclusion. Of course, no one should be rude to customers, but it sounds a little like you reacted badly to some not-unreasonable policies, too.</p>

<p>I am really surprised ellemenope’s insurance company let her kids stay off the policy. We certainly didn’t have that kind of luck. It was made clear to us that, when our kids were in college 700 miles away, and not coming home for extended stays, we could take them off the policy, but they would NOT be covered as occasional drivers if something happened during a visit home. (We did get a substantial discount, though, because they were over 200 miles away.)</p>

5

<p>I have a daughter who is 18 and has not gotten her license, and the insurance company has never done this, however I am not sure why you don’t just sign the form as is. If your son is not intending to drive then it won’t become an issue. Trying to alter the form may make it seem to the insurance company like you are trying to “game” the system. I don’t see what the problem is…</p>

6

<p>JHS, that’s really odd that your children would not be covered under your policy at all. If I gave permission to your children to drive my car, they would be covered under my policy. </p>

<p>Your children may not be listed on your policy, but anyone to whom you give permission to drive your car should be covered under your insurance.</p>

7

<p>The problem is billing for a service that is not being provided. The company is probably collecting money from people who are not noticing the waiver. Why should the customer have to “waive” something? None of my kids so far drove until they were 18. This is more common in our area because kids can easily take public transportation or walk to where they have to go - a preferable lifestyle in my opinion! No one “assumes” that just because someone is of age that he/she will drive. Our insurance company never did this. They explicitly stated that they did not require the kids to be added for having a permit; they just covered them for this. The day that the kids got their license, I called the insurance agent and added them. (In fact, I did not let them drive home from the driving test because they were not insured until I made the call.)
How does your insurance company know that you have a son? Do they go through birth records or something?
Is insurance required in CA? If it is, then your company should “assume” that you are going to follow the law and insure your son when the time comes.</p>

8

<p>jazzpark – An occasional driver to whom you give permission to use the car will be covered under your insurance. But if, say, you give the same person permission to use the car on a weekly basis, you may find coverage being denied. </p>

<p>Insuring kids is expensive; they change the risk profile of the insurance a lot. People would love to say, after a teen fender-bender, “Oh, I just let her use my car this once. She didn’t use it regularly, so I shouldn’t have had to add her to the policy and pay higher rates.”</p>

<p>Different companies handle this differently. I can’t say I’m impressed by how the OP’s company did it, and levirm is right that you can always add the kid to the policy regardless of when it renews. But I still think the OP doth protest too much.</p>

9

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Generally, not if the driver to whom you give permission is a member of your household. That’s because the driving record of the household member would be considered in setting the rates for the policy, while the record of the “occasional driver” to whom you give permission would not be considered. And, and JHS says, many people tried to game the system by keeping the kids off the policy and treating them as “occasional drivers.”</p>

<p>We were also able to take our daughter off our policy when she went to school, but we had to call and let them know when she came home and would be driving. They charged a pro-rated premium for her for those weeks, and we then signed a waiver again when she went back to school. That way we paid when she drove, and not when she didn’t.</p>

<p>I do admit that I don’t see what the big deal is about signing the waiver. But the treatment that the OP received is one of the reasons that I only use the well-established insurers. It may cost me a couple of bucks more, but I am generally treated well, particularly when I have a claim or an issue.</p>

10

<p>Thank You for your input!</p>

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It should be this way… But in my state, CA, a minor must hold a learner’s permit for at least 6 months before applying for a license. They must show proof of having signed up (paid) for a certain number of behind the wheel training hours before a permit will be allowed as well. Getting the permit can happen quickly, but a license requires a 6 month wait.</p>

<p>For clarification, I was speaking to a supervisor (or at least I requested one). And we pay our premium every 6 months. CA Insurance is required for all cars, we can’t register the car if we are uninsured - they check.</p>

<p>A few of our friends are in similar situations - teenage sons not driving, and none of them have received a notice/premium - they are all with other companies (which I plan on checking out). </p>

<p>I have no idea how they found out I have a son, unless we told them years ago when we signed up.</p>

11

<p>Hold off on that BB and AG thing. CA has specific laws and by the way the exclusion form you sent which you marked up will be sent back. Here is what I know: my 22 year old recently moved out of the area, doesn’t own a car. I had to sign an exclusion for both auto or homeowners or pay a premium for him. The rest of you may find that your insurance company will catch up on this eventually.<br>
The exclusion says that your insurance will not be responsible for any incident involving this person. If my son had been underage I’m not sure I would have signed it. My feeling was that he is 22, living cross country from us and that should any incident of any kind happen involving him someone would be hard pressed to come after us or our insurance. The waiver is a big deal in this case (IMHO) because the son is a minor and any incident could definitely mean legal troubles for the parents.
When my DS was in college and also cross country with no vehicle we did pay a premium for him as an away driver. I would look into a different insurance company that will give you the option of not covering him as he is not driving, doesn’t hold a license or permit. If and when he does if he is at college full time with no vehicle they should give you the option of the away driver policy. I am with GEICO and they definitely offer this option.
By the way, these laws differ severely from state to state. My Sibling in NC has a totally different saga involving her 19 year old who is in college.</p>

12

<p>We had to sign one of these on behalf of my very ill (and totally unable to drive) husband. He was of driving age and in the home.</p>

13

<p>They won’t charge you for a non-driver, if you simply sign the form.
My (California) insurance company had my girls listed as excluded drivers since they were born, I think.
When they got their permits I signed a form so they could be covered (for free) as “Provisional Instruction Permit Drivers” until they got their licenses.</p>

14

<p>We did have to sign the same form for nondrivers. It does not seem like a problem to me. You are merely saying that they will not drive your car - which is true.</p>

<p>21st Century in CA has been very good about excluding our ‘away at college’ drivers and putting them back on the policy for free for their breaks, we do have to pay for insurance for them if they are home for a whole summer.</p>

15

<p>I think JHS is quite right in post 4.
And in his quote that Atomicgirl put in post 10, I think the key to that post is
“He may not have a driver’s license now, but he can probably get a learner’s permit with a couple hours’ effort on any business day,…” .
The boy is without a license today, but could be legally driving tomorrow as JHS has shown.
Not fully licensed, perhaps, but legally driving.</p>

<p>It is fact that overall, teens are a greater insurance risk because they have more accidents. Teen boys even more so.</p>

<p>Because of the big risk to the insurer, I can see their desire for a form. </p>

<p>I am only semi-sympathetic to the individual complaining now about a bill they are paying because they were too busy to sign their name.
I have complete sympathy for the insured though, that the insurer should not have been rude.</p>

16

<p>Wanted to add that prior to signing the exclusion on my adult DS I called him and explained that he no longer has any auto insurance and that if he borrows a car he needs to make sure the owner has insurance and knows he does not. Also that if he rents a car he needs to pay for the rental company car insurance. Worth having that conversation with anyone you sign an exclusion for. Explain to your S that he may not drive any car at any time.</p>

17

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<p>I would be looking for another insurance company–there’s no excuse for being that rude. S got his learner’s permit when he wasn’t quite 16, just so he would get 50 extra points in his driver’s ed class. I called our insurance company to let them know about the permit, and was told that he was covered under our policy for no extra charge until he got his license. She said to let the company know when he got his license so they could adjust the premium. I didn’t have to sign a waiver. </p>

<p>S didn’t get his license until he was almost 18, but the insurance company only called to ask about his status once. When S finally got his license our premiums increased, but included driver training, good student, and occasional operator discounts. He even got a discount for being a student away at school without a car, which surprised me since I’d told the insurance company that the college was 42 miles away from home.</p>

18

<p>We are dealing with this right now. Our daughter is in Africa in the Peace Corps for two years. She is NOT permitted to drive at all during her service with the PC and she certainly isn’t going to be here to drive our cars. We called to have her removed and they hemmed and hawed…but finally said we "could’ have her removed if we sent documentation that she was a PC volunteer and the dates. We have that and will be faxing it to the insurance co this week. </p>

<p>But really, what if she moved to someplace like NYC …she is no longer our dependent and might not need or want a car in a city either. Why couldn’t we just REMOVE her from our policy?</p>

<p>I didn’t realize auto insurance was a “divine right”.</p>

19

<p>Most if not all insurance companies have an “away at college without a car” super-discount. Typically, the student needs to be at least 100 or more miles away from home and not have “regular access” to a car. They are still covered whenever they come home, and are also covered if they borrow someone’s car at school. The parent’s and insurance companies like it since you aren’t amending the policy a half a dozen times a year to account for every trip home. Exact details vary by insurance company - check with your agent.</p>

20

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<p>But my “child” is not away at college. She graduated and is no longer a dependent. Her address is NOT my home. She is not going to be here to drive my cars. She is out of the country and will be for two years. She is not permitted to drive while in the Peace Corps.</p>

<p>I just find it annoying that I can’t drop this kid from my policy without a big song and dance.</p>