<p>I am a 3.2 GPA junior student in a top 3 public high school in a very affluent, well educated, high tech township. My sports (varsity team captain) and EC’s are solid, but certainly not spectacular and I am not a Divsion I prospect and the DIII schools aren’t calling either. SAT’s will be around 1150-1200. My GPA will put me in the middle of the pack and likely in the top portion of the bottom half of my class. While it is not my intention to sound elitist or make excuses, I truly feel my school is working to my detriment. Under different circumstances (different school, different region), I truly believe I could have been that A/A- student in the top 10% of my class with probably a lot less effort. </p>
<p>For personal taste and financial reasons, I will be applying to a lot of larger schools, many publics, outside my region. My school will likely be an unknown to them. These schools are largely numbers driven. I find that because of my GPA and class rank, my matches will be schools way below my true abilities and potential. While all the schools like to talk about their holistic admissions process, they are under tremendous pressure to improve their Selectivity which increases their USN&WR rankings. Kids with 3.2’s and bottom half of the class don’t exactly improve the mean rankings and USN&WR averages don’t exactly look at the quality of the high school, rigor, etc. I am a statistics and Selectivity buster which is really working against me. </p>
<p>I have no desire and don’t expect/deserve to get into an Ivy, Williams, Amherst, etc. However, my GPA and ranking is really forcing me to look well below my abilities/potential. Even the Tier III schools don’t take many kids in the bottom half of the class. These spots mostly go to URM’s and recruited athletes which don’t apply to me.</p>
<p>I feel like I am boxed into a proverbial corner without the benefit of an escape hatch. Certainly, I will make the best of whatever cards I am eventually dealt, but feel that my school and the admissions process is working against me and that I am not playing on a level playing field. </p>
<p>If anyone has any ideas or suggestions for breaking through this maze, I would enjoy hearing from you. If anyone has an admissions background, that would be helpful. If I should just chalk this up as a valuable lesson that “life is not fair” and take my lumps and move on, I can handle that too. Any and all sincere feedback regarding my situation is welcomed.</p>
<p>I understand where you’re coming from - I also attend a highly competitive school and there’s way too many times throughout my high school career where I’ve wondered how well I would have done at my local zone school where the graduation rate is less than 65%. Instead, I chose to apply and commute to a demanding magnet school.
Here’s the saving grace (or so I think): by attending a prestigious high school, you’ve learned a lot more than you think. Value the education that you’ve received by challenging yourself.
Also, I believe when your highschool sends your official transcripts to colleges, they also send a cover sheet of information about the school, the way it runs, academic rigor etc. Obviously I don’t know how extensive this report is or even if colleges take it into account, but it’s definitely better than having no contextual information sent. </p>
<p>That said, I don’t think anyone really has a fair playing field when we’re applying to college. Everyone has some sort of situation, background, experience etc. etc. Your situation does sound frustrating, but I’ve shared what I can. I really wish you luck in the college process and I hope colleges do see through the numbers and recognize your potential.</p>
<p>I appreciate your candid and supportive comments. Yes, my school does provide a fairly extensive cover sheet about the school. For example, 99% of the students go to college and SAT scores are among the highest in the nation.</p>
<p>My concern is two-fold. The larger schools will likely not have the time to sort through this information and put it into proper context. Either you fit the number scheme or you don’t. They, as well as all schools, are also under tremendous pressure to raise their numbers, which raises their selectivity index, which brings in govermental grants, which brings in alumni contributions, etc. You compound this with the fact that I will be an OOS student in an even more competitive pool and the numbers work against me. </p>
<p>It is not my intention to whine and complain. I love my school and wouldn’t trade the experience. I’m just concerned it is really working against me in the admissions process.</p>
<p>Being mediocre at a prestigious and academically rigorous high school is absolutely fine.</p>
<p>However, the problem is your disastrous SAT score, which casts doubt not only on the quality of your high school, but exacerbates your problem of low grades.</p>
<p>Get those scores up as high as you can, and you should be competitive, if your school is truly as outstanding as you purport.</p>
<p>yea, until I see some higher test scores, I seriously think that you are some stupid senior that is upset that they aren’t as intelligent as his/her classmates, and is very conceited in their actual intellectual ability.</p>
<p>I think you are underestimating yourself and your chances. My son had very similar stats with great ECs as well and has been accepted more schools than we ever imagined he would be. (4 private top 100 Universities, 5 state schools, 2 of which are Big 10). Work hard on getting the best recommendations possible and writing essays that show your passion, commitment, character and authenticity. If you are a guy, you might have an easier time being accepted at some of the smaller LACs because they are low on male applicants. What is your sport? Sometimes just being interested in playing DIII will at least get you in the short stack of applications. There are great college matches out there for almost anyone, so don’t be discouraged. You might end up being surprised at what your opportunities will be!</p>
<p>Your arrogance to call someone you have never met conceited and “stupid” is more appropriately a reflection of your own ignorance. I have several friends on the Cornell hockey team and I’ll put my intellectual abilities and SAT scores against them any day or time (I just can’t put the puck in the net as well). Yes, I am a junior, but you seem to know me better than myself.</p>
<p>i’m not getting on any sides here, but Riggo, you’re just perpetuating the insults by hurling them back. it’s the internet. serious business!</p>
<p>as for the real question - i think adcoms take your school environment into account. if you up your SAT scores and write some really great essays i think you can have some good chances at some very good schools.</p>
<p>If you’re “in the middle of the pack” of “a top 3 public high school in a very affluent, well educated, high tech township,” 1150-1200 is very, very low.</p>
<p>I stand by my advice: if you want to maximize your chances, you need better SAT performance.</p>
<p>I think school prestige really plays a factor in admissions decisions
I used to go to this really rigorous/prestigious school, then transferred somewhere that’s considered not up to par with my previous school. I used to have the highest GPA in my class before I transferred.
Some ppl from my previous school got accepted at a top notch school, despite being quite mediocre…I got waitlisted at the same school, though it’s obvious I have a much stronger profile, SAT/GPA/extracurriculars-wise. 6 ppl got accepted to the college, while only one person at my school got accepted (and believe me, all applicants from my current school were quite strong).
Also, there hasn’t been a person accepted to a particular top 5 uni at my current school in years…decades, even. There was this really amazing guy who applied this year and got rejected, while I know some ppl from my previous school who aren’t as great who applied and got accepted/waitlisted. There are always like 2+ ppl who get accepted from my previous school. And seriously, this guy is really amazing…his essay was incredible (he’s writing is absolutely flawless!), he’s valedictorian, 2300+ SAT, 2 or 3 perfect scores and one 790 for SAT II, perfect AP scores for 3 subjects and perfect IB scores for 2 (he’s a full diploma candidate and tested for APs he didn’t even study at school…the rest of the IBs will be tested in May), some good extracurriculars, plus he won some science competitions or sth…idk. Anyways, it is indisputable that he is outstanding.
But I believe my school is known to have quite poor math/science programs. Maybe that could be it. My previous school is recognized internationally for its strong academic programs, esp in math/science.</p>
<p>But yes, your SAT scores are very low.
You should get it up in the 2000+/2400 range at least to be a competitive applicant for some good schools.
With great SAT scores to prove you know your stuff (this would prove that your grades are due to the competitiveness/rigor at your school) and a great essay, you could get into lots of good places.</p>
<p>Riggo, this is the internet, if you cant stand the heat, get outta the street. </p>
<p>I stand by my advice. Raise your SAT or take an ACT or you may be screwed when it comes to OOS public school admissions. For in state, you may be fine, you may not. You will surely get into colleges, but maybe not the OOS flagship type of school that you desire. </p>
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<p>yea, well you probably could not put your rank/GPA up against them “any day or time” and thats what counts in college admissions. NO ONE CARES how much intellectual potential you have until you realize it and pull down a freaking A in a class. We are not talking about your intrinsic worth to society, we are talking about your ability to get into colleges.</p>
<p>I think the OP is correct, public schools are mostly numbers driven and this works against kids from highly competitive high schools. It is what it is and it’s a good thing he knows this before applying. </p>
<p>Private colleges are much more likely to parse quality of high school and understand your performance in context.</p>
<p>riggo, ur situation is kinda harsh but mine is much more terrible.(sorry if comparing an intl student to a domestic one isn’t suitable).
the high school entrance exam in my province wasn’t fair. It was meant to find a just-a-lil-bit well-rounded student for a physics specialized class. And here, it’s so great to be in a high-ranked school: if u r in an elite school, u surely will pass the GCSE because examinants will do everything to let u pass(i mean they will let u cheat if u need to). I am in a bad school n in order to have good scores for the following GCSE, i will have to pay some money if i dont review anything(bah, even if i spend some money, my future still cant be assured yet). how funny. n being in an elite school in my province means u can enjoy grade inflation. being in my school means u have a B as maximum score 4 most subjects(they assume students in bad school shouldn’t have too high scores). So da only way to show every1 what u n i have is SAT. if u could only take SAT once like me, i have no comment on ur ability. if u can take it more dan twice, i think u may not be so talented. But even if with normal 1200 sat and B GPA, u can demonstrate ur talents by winning prizes in competitions, doing extraordinary research… if u fail to do all of those in such a good environment, nobody can praise u 4 what u’ve got.
good luck to both of us!
anyway, sat isn’t an ideal test. i would prefer a test which means to find students who can solve the toughest problems in the fields those students are interested in.</p>
<p>My daughter had an 87.25 average (high school does number instead of letter grades, which I liked) at a high school that has been recognized as one of the best in the state. 1320 SAT, 29 ACT - and she wasn’t in the top half of her class. It was tough, and I do think it hurt her in the admissions process. I was very surprised by some of the schools she did not get into. She is a freshman, not liking her present college and hopes to transfer. She did pretty well first semester - 3.4 -and has already been admitted to a school she was wait-listed at last year; waiting to hear from 2 more schools. I think transferring is a bit easier than getting in the first time around, so even if all does not work out as you hope in the college admissions process, work hard in college, and there may be more doors open for you as a transfer. I agree it stinks, but sometimes things are not always fair. In the end, my daughter would say she is grateful that she got such a great high school education!</p>
<p>I think you’re right that oos publics will look primarily at your numbers and you are hurt by your school’s competitiveness. However, I think you have a great shot at a lot of solid schools. One of my kids had a similar profile and was admitted to U Arizona and Indiana U at Bloomington. I saw on another post that your list included UMBC, George Mason and VCU. I think you have a very good shot at UMBC and VCU. I can’t predict George Mason oos because Virginia publics have become so competitive that it has trickled down to GMU. If your school has Naviance, you may have a better idea where you can go. If you are interested in smaller liberal arts schools, you may be able to leverage your being male or geographic diversity for a more highly ranked school.</p>
<p>I have looked at Naviance and I am solid for many of the schools for which I am considering. However, this is a stats based system based upon compiled averages of several years. My sense, as you have alluded, is that past trends are now out the window because of the economy. Economic pressures have forced many kids to look at instate options, which is driving up scores. Public schools are under increased pressure to admit instate kids and limit OOS enrollment. It now appears much harder for OOS kids to get into better publics than is reflected in Naviance. Not sure that Naviance is a good predictor anymore as the landscape has changed overnight.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, Riggo, I think you have a very good grasp of your situation. My son was in a similar position last year, minus the bad economy. The OOS public waitlisted him. The in-state public accepted him, but they knew what his high school was like. He ended up at a private school, where his stats were the middle 50%. Now the good news, he is thriving there. His first semester GPA was 3.967 and that was with biology and chemisty. He’s finally at the top of his class and is loving it. You may have to look past the “name” of the institution. Your competive high school experience will pay off.</p>