Bad Reactions to W&L ?

Parents Forum
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<p>NJMOM,</p>

<p>Speaking as a New England transplant whose daughter only looked at Southern schools:</p>

<p>At all but 1 school that SHE looked at: Spectators “dress” for football games. </p>

<p>Schools in the SEC, ACC and of course W&L and even the University of Richmond students wear clothes at football games that I would have never considered appropriate, only because the style is dressy (and to me not very practical). However, I went to high school and college in the North as did my husband where we had to dress for warmth.</p>

<h2>I asked my friend’s daughter who is a rising senior at Wake if they dress for games. She said definitely for football, not so much for basketball.</h2>

<p>Dima,
I’m glad to see that the South has not “brainwashed” you despite their best efforts. Obviously you are free to express your political convictions and I hope you participate in Mock Days in '08.</p>

<h2>Randolph Macon Women’s College is single-sex female but Randolph-Macon is co-ed. Did you mean Hampden-Sydney (all-male)?</h2>

<p>And for all, my daughter and I were also just at a new students reception. There were lots of Old Grads from the single-sex days (even my contemporaries from the '80s) welcoming all students, not just the boys.</p>

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<p>Considering some of my best friends here are liberal, a brainwashing would be pretty difficult. My roomie last year was very conservative and I ended up learning a lot from him. I will most definitely be a part of Mock Convention in '08.</p>

<p>The dressing up really only applies to football games. I don’t consider it preppy or elitist at all, it’s just tradition. Speaking of elitism, I did hear one example of elitism during one of our football games. It had nothing to do with money, one fan shouted “Hey (college we were playing)! What’s YOUR US News ranking?” I quickly checked to make sure I wasn’t at a Harvard game.</p>

<p>And yes you’re right I meant Hampden-Sydney for men and RMWC for women. Randolph-Macon is co-ed. My mistake.</p>

<p>And like I said, most students in the 80’s actually supported coeducation. It was those who graduated in the 40’s and 50’s that had problems with it.</p>

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<p>And in the immortal words of Tom Lehrer who wrote about college football back in the 40’s. His words are still applicable at some schools today…</p>

<p>"Now we come to that peculiar bit of Americana known as the football fight song. I was reminded not too long ago, upon returning from my lesson with the Scrabble pro at the Harvard club in Boston, of the days of my undergraduacy long ago when there used to be these very long Saturday afternoons in the fall with nothing to do - the library was closed - just waiting around for the cocktail parties to begin. And on occasions like that, some of us used to wander over to the…I believe it was called the stadium, to see if anything might be going on over there. And one did come to realize that the football fight songs that one hears in comparable stadia have a tendency to be somewhat uncouth, and even violent, and that it would be refreshing, to say the least, to find one that was a bit more genteel. And here it is, dedicated to my own alma mater, and called Fight Fiercely, Harvard. </p>

<p>[Here’s the tune:
<a href=“News, Politics, Sports, Mail & Latest Headlines - AOL.com”>News, Politics, Sports, Mail & Latest Headlines - AOL.com][/url</a>]</p>

<p>Fight fiercely, Harvard, fight, fight, fight!
Demonstrate to them our skill.
Albeit they possess the might,
Nonetheless we have the will.</p>

<p>How we will celebrate our victory,
We shall invite the whole team up for tea. (How jolly!)
Hurl that spheroid down the field,
And fight, fight, fight!</p>

<p>Fight fiercely, Harvard, fight, fight, fight!
Impress them with our prowess, do!
Oh, fellas, do not let the crimson down,
Be of stout heart and true.</p>

<p>Come on, chaps, fight for Harvard’s glorious name!
Won’t it be peachy if we win the game? (Oh, goody!)
Let’s try not to injure them,
But fight, fight, fight!
Let’s not be rough, though!
Fight, fight, fight!
And do fight fiercely!
Fight, fight, fight!"</p>

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<p>Here’s ours, the Swing, to lighten up this thread:</p>

<p>Come cheer for Washington and Lee
We’re going to win another victory
The white and blue it will e’er wave in triumph
For the University. Rah! Rah! Rah!
Fight to the finish we are with you
Break through the line on every play
Rush the ball on down the field
And we will win this game today</p>

<p>(with clapping)</p>

<p>When Washington and Lee’s men fall in line
We’re gonna win again another time
For W&L I yell I yell I yell
And for the University I yell like hell!
And we will fight fight fight for every yard
Circle the ends and hit that line right hard
And we will roll those WAHOOS on the sod, yes by God
Rah! Rah! Raaaah!
HEY!</p>

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<p>Esquette, I was not offended, so there is no need to apologize. </p>

<p>This is part of the ISI’s chapters on WL:</p>

<p>Lee Chapel now exist along a rigorous anti-drinking campaign–which some critics insist has as its aim the destruction of the school’s strong fraternities-and new emphasis on multiculturalism that, together, threaten to overwhelm the school’s identity. (Page 882)</p>

<p>The administration perceives fraternities and sororities as obstacles to multicultural integration. The Greek system is central to WL’s character, but it’s not the only part of the university that administrators are trying to tear down. Apparently, the administration has decided to uproot its student body and select a new one. (Page 886)</p>

<p>Here are a few sentences from the Trident Online:</p>

<p>“This can been seen, of course, in the long and slow assault on the Greek system, epitomized by the demise of Beta and the forced return of SPE (by the way, don’t let them trick you: they are SPE’s, not SigEp’s). I sincerely hope that the coming of President Ruscio is a sign that the University recognizes that it is something uniquely itself, and that it does not have to transform to become better. But I will strongly doubt it, until it proves otherwise.” By Michael Julius Issue date: 5/24/06</p>

<p>“We are in a struggle with the administration for our personal freedoms as students, and they are playing a game of chess, not checkers, against us. They are calculating their moves far in advance, moving to the ultimate goal of either controlling us or enrolling a different type of student. They take no pride in our accomplishments, put no faith in abilities, and show no respect for our independence. They have made themselves our adversary. As students, we should not underestimate the amount of planning and maneuvering that is taking place against us.” Administration takes complete control of student life By: Matthew Tilley - Issue date: 3/9/05</p>

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<p>I know Michael Julius very well. He graduated this year. He spent most of his time at W&L under the Burish administration, which is also when the ISI piece was researched and when the Tilley article was written. It is true that it is an administration that many students did not like. It was also an administration that many working at the school disliked and that a lot of alumni disliked. The claim is that President Burish tried to make us just like every single other top university in the country and tried to destroy what made it unique in exchange for rising in the US News rankings.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t know firsthand. Two months before I got to W&L, President Burish resigned to take up a job at Notre Dame - his alma mater. Our current President, Ken Ruscio '76, is welcomed by all because he knows W&L having gone here and taught here and will not try to make it a cookiecutter school.</p>

<p>So those criticisms are outdated. The goal of the Ruscio administration as far as I can tell by what I have heard/experienced so far is to strike a balance between improving W&L (a big part of which is increasing diversity and fighting negative stereotypes) and holding on to what makes it special and unique (including, for better or for worse, a strong Greek system).</p>

<p>Oh and Motherdear, maybe some of the brainwashing is there. I just read through the Lynyrd Skynyrd thread in the parent cafe (Julius would actually shout for Freebird at band parties all the time) and I’m making plans to go to the West Virginia State Fair this weekend.</p>

<p>BTW I don’t think I would’ve had a chance to try sweet tea, jambalaya, okra, or real BBQ if I went to Dartmouth or Georgetown (think of those things as symbolic . . .)</p>

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<p>If we haven’t been able to change a NY liberal’s (your description, not mine) mind, then I guess the “brainwashing” isn’t as bad as everyone thinks. :)</p>

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<p>DIMA… YEEHAAAA I was waiting for you to show up here LOL - and thankfully you have represented W&L in true fashion - great posts above.</p>

<p>For us Yanks who ‘don’t have a clue’ about that ‘southern thing’ I really have to say that a part of the experience at W&L is the growth and eye opening acceptance of all who attend and teach there. W&L has a wonderfully rich history that continues to amaze me the more I learn about it. Knowing many alum of W&L - I still get to enjoy the great stories - especially when they are involving the Yanks ranks - alumni weekend is still a very important event for this crew - they haven’t missed a one in 10 years.</p>

<p>DIMA I am sooo glad you have enjoyed your experience at W&L - makes my heart happy. Keep up the good work you do BTW. :)</p>

<p>PS - I also had 2 kiddos/yankees - who would only consider those ‘nice southern schools’ - glad they did</p>

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<p>How can these three cites fairly be characterized as substantial evidence that Greek life is causing a liberal-conservative battle between faculty and their students? Where is the political rift in these excerpts? Are we to interpret the past administration’s crack down on frats or its promotion of multiculturalism (whatever ISI means by that term) as motivated by the “progressive liberalism” of faculty, and student reaction to those initiatives as motivated by “ultra-conservatism”? That is not how I read it. That is not what I am hearing from students like Dima. To each his own inference, I suppose.</p>

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<p>“I wouldn’t know firsthand.”</p>

<p>Dima, didn’t the new President started 5 weeks ago? Were you to read more “outdated” reports, you may also realize that President Burish was also viewed as a calming presence when he started, and was expected to mitigate some of the measures started by the late President Elrod. </p>

<p>Indeed, those criticisms might be outdated–as I wrote in my first post in this thread–but the history of the past years cannot be rewritten. </p>

<p>It may be wishful thinking to believe that the findings and conclusions of the Strategic Planning Reports will be dismissed easily. After the honeymoon comes the step of having to learn to live together. </p>

<p>Five Presidents in five years have found it ain’t that easy.</p>

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<p>“That is not how I read it.”</p>

<p>Understanding the written word should not be THAT hard.</p>

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<p>^^President Elrod is/was a tough act to follow!!! IMHO that is</p>

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<p>“President Tom Burish has faced several important and controversial issues in his two years at Washington and Lee. He arrived in the second year of the divisive three-strike alcohol policy”</p>

<p>"The ATF was established in the Fall of 2001 by former President Elrod in order to further develop the work of the Board of Trustees regarding alcohol abuse at W&L. "</p>

<p>“In an April 2001 ATF report, the Board of Trustees adopted the “University Initiatives on Substance Abuse.” The policy covered a great deal of ground in limiting the use of alcohol on campus by establishing a “Three-strike” system and creating alcohol-free tailgates. The policy also included encouragement for both juniors and seniors to live in their greek houses or in one of the campus’ residential buildings.”</p>

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<p>XIGGI - your point??</p>

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<p>Xiggi- Give it up- put down WHATEVER battle flag you have! It is time!</p>

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<p>Battle flag? Give it up? It’s time? </p>

<p>Is there a problem with opinions based on facts? Where is YOUR southern spirit?</p>

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<p>I have plenty! I am heading to N.C. next week for my hush-puppies! :slight_smile: Seriously, I do believe Dima343 has answered the original question with a credibility not one other person can give here-we are not there experiencing W&L! And Dima, my son was waiting for you to post, also. He says you love the Yankees! (as in baseball!:)) And to all, a goodnight!</p>

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<p>NEVER a problem with opinions based on facts! Adding facts and sources in support of your opinion, as you have done when challenged, is much appreciated and helpful to the discussion.</p>

<p>As my profession long ago taught me, two people looking at the same evidence frequently don’t agree on what it means. Even when it’s in writing. Or should I perhaps say especially when it is in writing, because the valuable nuances of body language and context are missing. I have litigated multimillion dollar disputes over the meaning of a three word clause in a contract written by the highest paid professionals. Here, there seems to be some discrepancy between what you think these words say and what they mean to me. I rest my case.</p>

<p>These different interpretations can be both real and honorable. So battle flag, yes, as long as it’s not the stars and bars - I am still not a southerner!</p>

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<p>Thanks Dima, your post was very informative.</p>

<p>laxer, I assume you’re a female, correct? Are you currently a student at W&L?</p>

<p>I think my concerns now are mainly with the sorority… thing. lol. Being from NJ, I know little about how sororities (especially ones in the South) operate. This is from the U Richmond thread but I’m wondering if this also applies to W&L sororities?
“You’re right, your daughter will get cut from the best groups on campus primarily because she’s an northeast liberal. If she isn’t from an old family or from the right school forget it. Of course girls are cut who do go to the right schools if they are not up to par either.”</p>

<p>er… ‘up to par’?</p>

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<p>And now back to the OP . . . thankfully!</p>