Basin of Attraction Theory

InquilineKea · September 1, 2007, 5:39pm

So I was thinking…

Why is it often in my best interests to interact with those far younger than me?

Basin of attraction theory.

So basically young people are quite open to different basins of attractions in the memetic plane so to speak. However, each basin of attraction happens to exert some sort of force on each individual, based on the individual’s experiences.

So one basin of attraction corresponds to societal influence. The vast majority of people ultimately fall into this basin of attraction. These people grow up, get married, get a decent job, and live a superficial life filled with socially acceptable pleasures.

On the other hand, there are other basins of attraction too. And it needs not be a monofactorial basin of attraction. Rather, this basin of attraction can have many different local minima.

So I can call this basin of attraction the rationalists and those who think scientifically, who question authority and who aren’t particularly keen on pursuing socially acceptable interests. I’m in one of those basis of attractions - however, I’m the minority of those in such basins of attractions.

But is this model too simplified? Surely some very rational and scientific thinkers who aren’t superficial still engage in superficial pleasures full of stimuli redundancy. My model is flawed in that it assumes that once you fall into one basin of attraction, you’re stuck there forever and cannot integrate elements from another basin of attraction.

Of course, younger people are often easier to interact with than older people since younger people often aren’t so deep in a particular basin of attraction. And if one desires to influence a young person towards his own basin of attraction, he may be successful in that. Some mentors have the tendency to do such a thing.

LesOs · September 1, 2007, 5:42pm

Your posts are so interesting. Clicking on one of them is like clicking “Random Article” on Wikipedia… except I don’t end up with an article about Rod Stewart.

InquilineKea · September 1, 2007, 6:29pm

aw, thanks. :)

EDIT of theory:

there is progressive differentiation within each basin of attraction for each person’s idiosyncrasies. Moreover, noise exists. Sometimes, the amplitude of such noise is large enough for a person to jump out of his basin of attraction. Social revolutions often produce large amplitudes in such noise for numerous individuals. For other individuals, surviving an accident or suicide attempt often magnifies such amplitudes. Of course the noise exists only if the person can sense such noise. Moreover, this “noise” isn’t always undirected stochastic noise. Rather, it is often noise with some direction.

While such basins of attractions are often visualized most easily in 3-D grids, it’s conceivable that the basins of attractions are more realistically applied in models in R^n, when n implies a number larger than 3.

InquilineKea · September 1, 2007, 7:44pm

I wrote
at 4:44pm
“Also, you asking me “permission” rather defeats the whole concept, seeing as one should involuntarily [subconsciously] conform to the ideas of a certain basin, and, eventually, fall into it.”

Haha, but voluntary conformation involves push and shove. The motion of the person is not purely stochastic, it can be pushed and shoved. A deeper basin of attraction requires more push/shove. An older person has more inertia and also required more push/shove.

The basin of attraction model is the most generic way to describe the model. It is the most comprehensive. It accounts for both gravity wells around massive objects as according to general relativity and it also accounts for evolutionary theory (as Murray Gell-Mann described in “Quark and Jaguar”)
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X shared a link
at 4:41pm
Of course it is hard to leave the basin of attraction after you have entered it. See my most recent reply to the thread though:

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=388879[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=388879</a>

Latest reply: I have accounted for it by means of noise. It’s something Murray Gell-Mann wrote in his book - this noise is what allows organisms to escape basins of attraction. Similarly, it allows people to escape their basins of attraction. They can be pushed and shoved. But this push and shove can be made large enough for them to escape them.

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X(no network) wrote
at 4:39pm
Also, you asking me “permission” rather defeats the whole concept, seeing as one should involuntarily [subconsciously] conform to the ideas of a certain basin, and, eventually, fall into it.

Perhaps a better name would be “[Gravity] Well of Conformation”, seeing as “basin”, by some, can be taken almost literally, and “attraction” implies that one is consciously becoming “attracted” to the ideals of one basin and joining it in a moment, rather that slowly conforming to the ideals of the basin [or well] and “falling” into it.
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X (no network) wrote
at 4:36pm
BasiN of attraction, yes? The concept is rather odd. First of all, you have visualized it as a “basin”; reminiscent of the structure of the groups that you describe – it is hard for one to leave after he has entered. However, this graphical representation may be flawed, and more complex, accurate designs [in the physical sense] can surely be created with a bit of thought.
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I wrote
at 4:31pm
Will you grant me permission to pull you towards my basis of attraction?
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InquilineKea · September 1, 2007, 7:59pm

I wrote
at 5:04pm
Event horizons are effective singularities.

BoA theory effectively accounts for singularities (think of asymptotically approaches the Dirac Delta function from all directions in R^3)
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I wrote
at 5:03pm
We’re talking about change here. So for a single individual, not in evolutionary theory.

But what if we think of a single genotype? In this case, the genotype does replicate. In this situation, new genotypes spring out from such genotypes and they tend to move towards basins of attraction (such as towards properties that a particular species has). These properties are influenced by selection pressures that help shape such basins of attraction and that help determine which species are most likely to survive in the environment (and the genotypes that tend to live on). The phenotypic expressions of such genotypes are the means through which the individual genotypes interact with the world.
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X(no network) wrote
at 5:00pm
How do we define singularities in BoA? The Event Horizon should be rather obvious [what would be the equivalent Schwarzschild Radius? =D], but singularity is a bit more difficult.
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X (no network) wrote
at 4:58pm
No, is it possible for a SINGLE individual of a population to experience stochastic motion with regard to BoA? In a time that is several orders of magnitude less than that required by evolution? =D
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I wrote
at 4:57pm
“Then perhaps it is an advantage to be purely stochastic in terms of movement in and out of basins of attraction? =D Is it physically possible? Is it within the limitations of the [current] human brain?”

It is possible in evolutionary theory: genetic drift is a form of stochastic motion. So yes. We call this noise in this model (as Gell-Mann also phrases it). But this change is far slower than any other form of change, as we can see in the form of societal influences in this model)
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I wrote
at 4:56pm
in such basin. There is still noise, and there are still factors that try to pull me out of the basin of attraction (we can visualize a spaceprobe that suddenly decides to release matter into the antimatter chamber, which helps exerting a force against such basin of attraction). But eventually it is increasingly difficult to pull itself out of it.

ONe problem is that this theory does not account for event horizons or singularities. ^Y_^
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X (no network) wrote
at 4:55pm
Then perhaps it is an advantage to be purely stochastic in terms of movement in and out of basins of attraction? =D Is it physically possible? Is it within the limitations of the [current] human brain?
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I wrote
at 4:54pm
"“Gravity wells are a subset of basins of attractions, for example. And they don’t generalize equal inertia/momentum/velocity. They allow for the calculations of inertia/momentum/velocity to take place and simplify the conceptualization of such calculations. ^_^”

LAWL. Now we have delved into purely physical terms. Define, then, in mathematical terms, the basin of attraction that you think of – INCLUDING such subjective measures that allow one to easily [or not so easily] fall into a “Basin of Attraction”. =D"

Okay.

For me, my basin of attraction is the interests/attitudes/beliefs that I hold. Such interests/beliefs/attitudes tend to be self-reinforcing. As for what allows me to easily fall into it - my personality, intelligence, and the environment at hand. All of those intrinsic qualities in myself - they exert different pulls in each direction. Eventually, one of the influences (or many of them) are going to pull me towards one basin, and then I go deeper and deeper in such bas
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I wrote
at 4:52pm
to pull out of such wells. It’s difficult to pull me out of the well that I found myself in now. =D It’s also difficult to pull George W. Bush out of the well he found himself in. Oftentimes this occurs since beliefs, attitudes, and knowledge are self-reinforcing, in that they help the person realize that there is opportunity cost involved in abandoning such beliefs/attitudes/knowledge in pursuit of another basin of attraction/well
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X(no network) wrote
at 4:52pm
“Gravity wells are a subset of basins of attractions, for example. And they don’t generalize equal inertia/momentum/velocity. They allow for the calculations of inertia/momentum/velocity to take place and simplify the conceptualization of such calculations. ^_^”

LAWL. Now we have delved into purely physical terms. Define, then, in mathematical terms, the basin of attraction that you think of – INCLUDING such subjective measures that allow one to easily [or not so easily] fall into a “Basin of Attraction”. =D
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I wrote
at 4:51pm
“Of course motion is not purely stochastic – that assumes the person is purely random in thought [and thus, follows no logical progression in reasoning as well] and is highly susceptible to environmental influences.”

That is what stochastic motion assumes. Mine model does not. Neither does the subset of basins of attraction known as gravity wells, and the objects that behave within gravity wells (namely, satellites).

“How do you define “deeper”? Having more extreme requisites? =D Requiring more time to progress to? This whole concept has been visualized in the physical sense, and it is rather inconsistent to give physical meaning to purely theoretical terms [without mathematics, that is =D]”

Deeper: It’s psychological. There’s one for every person. Some wells are deeper for some people than others. But for most people, it results in increased positive feedback/increased gravitational influence/increased stability towards the well (and as a result they become increasingly difficult
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I shared a link
at 4:49pm
But basin is mathematically accurate! ^^
<a href=“Basin - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basin</a>of_attraction

“assumes [generalizes] equal willpower, eccentricity [and all other such characteristics] amongst the population.”

Not necessarily. It does take different variables into account. Gravity wells are a subset of basins of attractions, for example. And they don’t generalize equal inertia/momentum/velocity. They allow for the calculations of inertia/momentum/velocity to take place and simplify the conceptualization of such calculations. We can have substitutes for inertia/momentum/velocity in this model of how a human is influenced by basins of attraction.

This is different, of course, since this is a force even more complex than that of gravity (there are different wells within each basin)
Stability theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stability theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basin_of_attraction[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basin_of_attraction</a>
In mathematics, stability theory deals with the stability of solutions (or sets of solutions) of differential equations and dynamical systems.
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X (no network) wrote
at 4:49pm
Of course motion is not purely stochastic – that assumes the person is purely random in thought [and thus, follows no logical progression in reasoning as well] and is highly susceptible to environmental influences.

“A deeper basin of attraction requires more push/shove.”

How do you define “deeper”? Having more extreme requisites? =D Requiring more time to progress to? This whole concept has been visualized in the physical sense, and it is rather inconsistent to give physical meaning to purely theoretical terms [without mathematics, that is =D]
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X (no network) wrote
at 4:45pm
"Of course it is hard to leave the basin of attraction after you have entered it. "

The problem with this is that it assumes [generalizes] equal willpower, eccentricity [and all other such characteristics] amongst the population. Some may easily shift from basin to basin. By the way, the term “basin” is becoming rather annoying. I highly suggest that you reconsider the name. =D
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I wrote
at 4:44pm
“Also, you asking me “permission” rather defeats the whole concept, seeing as one should involuntarily [subconsciously] conform to the ideas of a certain basin, and, eventually, fall into it.”

Haha, but voluntary conformation involves push and shove. The motion of the person is not purely stochastic, it can be pushed and shoved. A deeper basin of attraction requires more push/shove. An older person has more inertia and also required more push/shove.

The basin of attraction model is the most generic way to describe the model. It is the most comprehensive. It accounts for both gravity wells around massive objects as according to general relativity and it also accounts for evolutionary theory (as Murray Gell-Mann described in “Quark and Jaguar”)
Wall-to-Wall - Write on My Wall - Delete

I shared a link
at 4:41pm
Of course it is hard to leave the basin of attraction after you have entered it. See my most recent reply to the thread though:

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=388879[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=388879</a>

Latest reply: I have accounted for it by means of noise. It’s something Murray Gell-Mann wrote in his book - this noise is what allows organisms to escape basins of attraction. Similarly, it allows people to escape their basins of attraction. They can be pushed and shoved. But this push and shove can be made large enough for them to escape them.
Basin of Attraction Theory - College D…
Basin of Attraction Theory - College Discussion
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidentia%5B/url%5D”>http://talk.collegeconfidentia</a>…
Basin of Attraction Theory College Confidential Cafe

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X(no network) wrote
at 4:39pm
Also, you asking me “permission” rather defeats the whole concept, seeing as one should involuntarily [subconsciously] conform to the ideas of a certain basin, and, eventually, fall into it.

Perhaps a better name would be “[Gravity] Well of Conformation”, seeing as “basin”, by some, can be taken almost literally, and “attraction” implies that one is consciously becoming “attracted” to the ideals of one basin and joining it in a moment, rather that slowly conforming to the ideals of the basin [or well] and “falling” into it.
Wall-to-Wall - Write on Heinrich’s Wall - Message - Delete

X (no network) wrote
at 4:36pm
BasiN of attraction, yes? The concept is rather odd. First of all, you have visualized it as a “basin”; reminiscent of the structure of the groups that you describe – it is hard for one to leave after he has entered. However, this graphical representation may be flawed, and more complex, accurate designs [in the physical sense] can surely be created with a bit of thought.
Wall-to-Wall - Write on Heinrich’s Wall - Message - Delete

I wrote
at 4:31pm
Will you grant me permission to pull you towards my basis of attraction?
Wall-to-Wall - Write on My Wall - Delete

fizix2 · September 2, 2007, 9:45am

your efforts to anonymize your correspondent only sort of worked. :D

anyhows, your theory kinda reminds me of contour maps for some reason.

mj93 · September 15, 2007, 12:11am

Question…

So, there’s this thing in the book ‘The Tipping Point’ about how fads go in and fad out … so if we’re talking about MAJOR, long-standing fads to the point where they would be considered “conventional wisdom” or “societal norms”, i.e … thinking it’s taboo to talk about sex on TV in the 50’s transitioning to inappropriate rap music today (assuming that all of that is happening in one person’s lifetime). Would the individual be swiching basins if he changed his mind about sexuality in the media during that time?

Obviously he would be switching mentalities, but he would be staying with the societal norms… going with the flow, per se

eddyx77 · September 15, 2007, 12:33am

Thats a good point^^^

However, you should remember that it doesn’t have to meet such specific criteria, rather it can be more abstract. You could estimate that X% of people within a certain mentality feel that the boundaries of the status quo are unimportant, regardless of how they are defined at a specific time, and X% of people within another mentality feel that the boundaries of the status quo are not strict enough, regardless of what they actually are, while the majority of people will conform to those boundaries without thinking too much of it.

Thats just one hypothetical example, you could also argue that the boundaries of all free societies are constantly being pushed by the majority. But the point I’m making is that the Rap music of today is viewed in the same way that Jazz music was viewed in the 20’s or rock N roll was viewed in the 50s. Go back even farther and you’ll find that many different styles of music and dance have been called heresy throughout history. As long as it represents something outside the established context of the social paradigm, its is seen as a threat to traditional values.

Of course, now we are reaching a new level of availability of all types of media with the internet. Basically any 12 year old kid can find any kind of music or video that he wants, including pornography and violence of what seems like a historically unmatched level.

But, think about what was common place in the Roman Empire. The idea of watching a living human being eaten alive by animals for pleasure seems horribly arcane to the modern American. At least for a while longer…

InquilineKea · September 15, 2007, 2:28am

Perhaps it could be that the basins are changing, and bringing a lot of the people with them (although some of the people stuck in the basins will be bumped out of the basins due to disturbances, which have a tendency to bump such individuals out of such basins). I read “The Tipping Point” as well, which was a very interesting book (and if the hypotheses are true, could explain a lot about the malleability and attractive properties of such basins)

mj93 · September 15, 2007, 12:14pm

Ah, i see.

InquilineKea · September 15, 2007, 6:17pm

Anyways, this is how I developed the theory:

So I was thinking about the ways that people develop learning styles (or styles of doing anything else), of which there are several options for them to choose from (in a non-coercive society). In this case, you could say that the best learning style for the person is the one that his personality is best suited for. However, in reality, practice makes perfect and brings about so-called “vendor lock-in”. In this case, the 'best learning" style for someone is a combination of the style his personality is suited for and the style that he just has happened to get used with. He only has the initiative to switch if the style that suits his personality best would be far more efficient for him, such that the more efficient style would justify the opportunity costs involved in the switch. But for many learning (or other) styles, people don’t switch. It’s a sort of genes vs. environment analogy, as the environment affects individual basins of attraction.

For example, many of us have been sucked into the QWERTY keyboard basin of attraction. Even though QWERTY keyboards were designed to actually slow down our typing - we’d take a huge amount of opportunity cost if we were to switch to another keyboard (and skills on other keyboards are useless for most public computers - as well as those in other people’s houses).

InquilineKea · September 17, 2007, 10:07pm

Eh…

Beinhocker’s “Wealth of Networks” has a chapter 9 devoted to the subject (they’re called fitness landscapes (and peaks on it)). The landscapes shift with changing conditions.

Basin of Attraction Theory

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