Bates vs Northeastern

The academic fit is something only you can figure out, but Tufts is the most “one of these things is not like the others”. Well except that Grinnell is in Iowa. To me the others are all roughly equivalent, with the main differentiator being location.

One thing I will say, having visited both Wesleyan and Bates, is that Bates (and maybe this is the administration more than the students) seemed a lot more liberal than Wesleyan, which I was not expecting. Maybe it was because we visited Bates on “Indigenous Peoples’ Day”, so they had a few events going on. Some of the emails we have gotten from Bates also struck me as a little “out there”. FWIW I’m a 60 year old white guy who self identifies as slightly left of center politically. I was expecting Wesleyan to be a lot nuttier than it turned out to be.

40 ish years ago I was a kid from Connecticut who ended up going to college in Maine (Colby). I just love Maine to pieces and might end up retiring (say it ain’t so) there. If you are considering Bates you should try to visit if you can, since Lewiston is an acquired taste, and the campus is pretty much right in it.

Of the 3 CBB schools, Bowdoin definitely has the nicest town (Waterville is kind of “Lewiston-lite”, but a couple of miles away from the Colby bubble). From what I have heard Hamilton, Williams and Middlebury are, in varying degrees, in the middle of nowhere. Don’t quote me on that, though.

@ncelotto Hi there. S19 is a XC and track runner at Bowdoin. Math major but really not sure what he’d like to do with that. He’s interested in physics, too, and loves the idea of doing “something” for NASA but hasn’t dug deep into that yet. He also thinks he’d consider going into consulting or working for any company that’s interesting to him in some sort of analyst role (but no finance/banking). Obviously, he’s still working on long term plans. In the meantime, he’s always been a strong math student and has really liked the math classes at Bowdoin and his professors have been great - supportive and very available for help but also to mentor him. He passed out of all Calc so started in Linear Algebra and then took a Math Reasoning class (required for the major). Now he’s free to dabble a bit in the math department. Below is the link to the math department’s website. You can see, if you scroll down, suggestions within the major for specific interests. There is one for stats.

https://www.bowdoin.edu/math/requirements/index.html

I do not know anything about data analytics. Maybe another poster can look at the link and comment. Of course, there are lots of courses in the comp sci dept too. S19 wants nothing to do with them. He has to find out if there’s any minimum comp sci classes he should take for his career goals but, for right now, is avoiding them. Lol.

He loves the XC and track teams. He bonded with them immediately and they really are great kids. Bright, friendly, focused kids.

PM me if you have specific questions. Happy to try to answer.

https://www.bowdoin.edu/computer-science/requirements/index.html

Here’s info for Bowdoin’s Comp Sci dept. Looks like there are a handful of AI classes.

Note that Hamilton is classified as suburban by some sources and offers convenient access to suburban amenities and small-urban features.

https://www.newsweek.com/25-most-desirable-suburban-schools-71867

https://www.hamilton.edu/campuslife/transportation/the-jitney

Related to @merc81’s comment #7 and the OP’s interest in data analytics and Bates, does anyone know about the future plans for the digital and computational studies minor that they were planning but it looks like it hasn’t gotten off the ground yet? There seems to be some oddness related to the guy they brought in to start the program and after two years he left

Edited to add: https://www.bates.edu/news/2018/03/29/bates-digital-and-computational-studies-for-all-our-students/

https://thebatesstudent.com/17854/news/what-happened-to-dcs/

It’s strange that someone who had a named professorship and presumably was tenured (?) would describe himself on his personal website as “looking for work.”

@CheddarcheeseMN Do you think that, lets say the program is definitely growing into something good, it would be enough for the career I want to end up with? I know its hard to say, but if I paired that up with a mathematics major, do you think that would be good enough?

@homerdog I personally love the Bowdoin campus and area (from what I’ve seen online). The coach said that they don’t give any help in the admissions process to future potential athletes (only to a select few), but he said that if I were to get in then I would have a spot on the team. I’m a bit worried by their 9% acceptance rate and overall difficulty to gain admission, as the other coaches I have talked to would all like me to apply ED in order to receive help from them for admission. I’m not sure if I would want to risk that much for Bowdoin, when I would have a MUCH better chance at a school like Bates, Wesleyan, etc for they would be able to help me gain admission plus a higher general acceptance rate.

Now…you cut out the part where I specifically said “Don’t quote me on that, though.”:slight_smile: I did actually look it up on a map, though. I stand corrected, since I guess Utica is pretty close. North Adams is kind of close to Williams. Middlebury, uh…

In terms of a college where academics and athletics are equally important, you should probably give more consideration to colleges where you feel comfortable with the coach, maybe the team, if you have a chance to meet them, even virtually.

“but it doesn’t have a real statistics dept”

I just perused Bowdoin’s website and they may not have a stats dept but they do have this digital and computational major which has courses that cover AI, stats etc, you probably should take a deeper look at some of the college’s offerings. I may lean to Bowdoin based on what you’re looking for.

@ThisNameNotTaken: I wasn’t sure how to post that diplomatically. After considering various ways to address that I was indeed “[quoting you] on that,” I decided to keep my post simple just to get the information across. :slight_smile:

Regarding Bates and the mystery behind their digital and computational studies program, yes I think it would be a great program to add to a math major. You should ask them if that digital studies program will be an approved minor and when.
Many people going in to data science masters (especially the predictive analytics type programs) are not going to be CS majors.

These are exactly the words that were spoken to S19. He was admitted in RD. He was not recruited to run. Two of his XC friends were recruited in ED but only two. We really don’t even know how much his running mattered in RD. He will never know. He was a strong candidate otherwise.

But, yes, RD to Bowdoin is a risk with such a low acceptance rate. Our high school hardly ever gets anyone in. He was thrilled.

I do not know how much ED will help you to Bowdoin if you aren’t being officially recruited. One of the other boys on the team applied ED but wasn’t being recruited. Was deferred but got in RD. Again, he doesn’t know if running helped at all.

Your best bet is to get attention from a coach and he wants to support you in ED and then you really like that school. Short of that, you can take a risk and hope a coach puts a little tip in for you in admissions but you cannot count on that. I know it’s hard to make that decision.

@ThisNameNotTaken ,
Knock me down with a feather, haha! That’s not the Bates I know at all. I honestly would never say I’ve had a single communication from Bates that was anything out of the ordinary. Maybe it was indeed just the day you visited. Lewiston is modest, no question. As I said before, it’s much improved over the last four years. As for the administration, they’ve been doing a great job. They have made excellent improvements in my daughter’s time there and Clayton Spencer has a superb pedigree and is the best thing that’s ever happened to the school.

I believe the brand new Bonney Science Center is scheduled to open in Fall 2021. They plan to offer more STEM based majors and have been actively expanding those offerings. Given the current situation, I’d call or email admissions and ask these questions in more detail.

Bates was founded by abolitionists and was the first college in New England to admit women. There has never been Greek life on campus. If I want to sum up Bates in one word, I’d say it’s inclusive. It is liberal, with, IMO, a good mix of kids. Some outdoorsy types, urbanites, nerds, preppy kids, arty kids, regular kids, maybe a few social justice warriors, (but not known for that). When I was last on campus, I saw guys riding longboards, and some kids were floating around in a giant inflatable flamingo on Lake Andrews. It’s know for being relaxed and friendly, and is also regarded as the more “arty” of the Maine NESCAC’s.

OP, you can major in Math at Bates. You could also create a Stats major. I know nothing about stats, but the link I gave earlier should give you more info. I can tell you that what my D has learned about stats has been crucial to her getting a research position and two jobs, for what that’s worth.

I’ll give you my daughter’s perspective on other schools you listed, which she either visited or considered. Bear in mind, academically all of these colleges are excellent. You will get a great degree from any of them, and they will all have good math departments, but they won’t all offer stats as a major.

I love Wesleyan, and I think it’s a great school for creative, media-minded, social justice warriors and lefty intellectuals. Back in the day, it probably would have been the place for me, but my daughter thought it was too much. She thought the campus was a hodgepodge of buildings.

Bowdoin is a great school. Nice town. I love the little Arctic Museum on campus. My D didn’t like it as she thought it looked like a big cemetery (go figure.) It’s going to be the hardest to get in, apart from Williams, if you decide to apply.

Hamilton leans a little more conservative compared to Bates and Wesleyan. Lovely campus. Has an open curriculum, academically rigorous. I liked it, but my D felt it was too preppy.

Colby is also excellent, but was a little too preppy for my D, which at that time in her life, she wanted to avoid. Beautiful campus. Many people, including me, would say that Bowdoin, Colby and Bates are more alike than they are different. There is a friendly rivalry between the three. Once they’ve all graduated, they respect each other as Maine NESCAC’ers. It is not uncommon to see in the Weddings section of the Bates magazine that a Bates grad has married a Bowdoin or Colby grad.

Grinnell is, by all accounts, an excellent school with a cool student body that is creative and intelligent. I haven’t visited. My understanding is that the students are not dissimilar to Wesleyan students. It’s highly regarded. And as for Iowa, I think as is the case with most LACs, you will spend most of your time on campus, so it doesn’t matter too much if it’s in Iowa.

We loved Tufts. Great location. Nice kids. I think it has a similar student body to Bates, but obviously much bigger. D didn’t get in, sadly.

D never considered Williams or Middlebury. Williams is “old-money” and prestigious. Considered by many to be the Harvard equivalent of LACs. Middlebury is probably similar in vibe to Bates or Bowdoin. Quite outdoorsy, good environmental science program. Yes, both are pretty isolated, but I always think your best bet is to look at the freshman retention rate. Kids are happy, despite the isolation.

There is a lot of overlap in kids applying to these colleges. You aren’t going to go wrong with any of them. Get a Fiske guide and look at the website Niche to get better ideas of these colleges.

For what’s it’s worth, I know two students at Midd. Both think the bro-culture at Midd is more prevalent than at the other NESCACs.

Also, if you are looking to run, their team is very very competitive. Certain events have won at nationals. I would check your times versus the Middlebury times. I don’t know if they have as many walk ons as the other NESCACs.

As far as I can tell Bates’ math department offers one advanced course in probability and one advanced course in statistics. Though these courses appear to be taught at a notably high level (multivariable calculus is indicated as a prerequisite), they would fall short of the minimum of courses needed for even a statistics minor.

@Lindagaf thank you so much, very insightful. I will take everything into consideration.

@homerdog yes, Middlebury has won the conference for the past 2 years in mens track and field. I don’t think I would be able to run at the school (and the coach has not responded to the email I sent out).

OP would have to talk to Bates if he is serious about pursuing stats. I know at one point my D thought about trying to pursue a major not offered at Bates and they said they could do it. She didn’t go any farther. I don’t think creating a major is ideal for most students and Bates might not be right for him if he wants to do that.

I don’t know what, if any, new courses might be on the horizon with the opening of the the new science center and the Covid situation. Good questions for the math department too.

As a general comment, I’m in favor of interdisciplinary concentrations when the requisites are present in the general curriculum. For example, a student, under guidance, could create a major or minor in data science through, if available, appropriate courses in computer science, math and statistics. For this reason, I think @ncelotto should seek colleges that offer strong academic programs across several core areas, particularly those just mentioned. Along these lines, pursuing a data science major/minor specifically may counterproductively limit his choices. For a branch of mathematics such as statistics, however, the courses essential to a major or minor would either be present in sufficient quantity and depth or not, excepting in the case of independent study.

I wouldnt call Bates rural or dry.

The issue is where you can satisfy your running interests while preparing for the future you want, including your other personal interests (city kid vs smaller urban area.)

I don’t know why discussions of Bates so often turn into pitches for Bowdoin and a few certain others. Different schools. In many cases on CC, it’s done before even seeing if a kid has a reasonable chance.

I’m also a Bates parent (two kids are alums) and neither of mine would have settled happily at Bowdoin.

I had not idea what a stats minor even looked so I just googled it at Berkeley and it’s basically five courses, which is consistent with other minors:

basically two required classes - Concepts of Probability or Probability for Data Science

Concepts of Statistics

3 STATISTICS ELECTIVES (at least one course must have a lab). Choose from:

(lab) Data, Inference, and Decisions
Stochastic Processes
Linear Modeling: Theory and Applications
(lab) Sampling Surveys
(lab) Introduction to Time Series
(lab) Modern Statistical Prediction and Machine Learning
Game Theory
Seminar on Topics in Probability and Statistics
The Design and Analysis of Experiments
(lab) Reproducible and Collaborative Statistical Data Science

The issue with the colleges being discussed would be the electives - I think the colleges with the computational major should allow you to get three from that list, especially as I saw courses in modeling, AI, to create a minor a NESCAC college.

A course with lab or fieldwork definitely is a good idea btw.