<p>I’m sure this has been addressed earlier in the thread, but it’s a long thread…</p>
<p>What is this lady’s connection to China? How is she Chinese? She was born in Illinois. Her parents were from the Philippines. She made her mixed-race kids learn Chinese? That’s what “progressive” wealthy white parents do where I’m from.</p>
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<p>Same as, Obama is to Kenya. Same as, Kenya is to Obama. </p>
<p>‘Birther’</p>
<p>A Chinese Emperor said, “Once a Chinese, Always a Chinese.”
{he needed taxes and soldiers.}
:)</p>
<p>I do hope you are just joking, long prime.</p>
<p>Folks,</p>
<p>Getting ahead by taking advantage of family connections is nothing new: Adams family, Bush family, etc, just a couple of examples. Yes, there are plenty of people just as (or more) qualified to be the president. So what? Who says every successful people got there without any assistance or being born into a privileged class? Well, it all boils down to the following: Life ant fair. Let’s just acknowledge the fact and move on with our own lives. </p>
<p>I would agree: Getting into Harvard or Yale is not the end of a success. We can’t make any final judgment until someone gives a eulogy at Sophia’s funeral years down the road. Most of us may not get to live to see that anyway…What really matters, however, is whether she is living a happy life, or not. In my humble opinion, her success or failure is none of our business.</p>
<p>BTW, as an immigrant from China, I strongly disagree with Chua’s parenting method. Although she has a Chinese last name, she did not grow up in China. Granted that her method of parenting happens in China and so does in many parts of the world, the parenting method itself is not uniquely Chinese.</p>
<p>A comment on LongPrime’s quote: Yes. There was a legend in China about that. At the time, the Emperor thought that China was the center of the squre-shaped universe. Everyone else on this universe is classified as barbarians. For a few thousand years, Chinese refuse to learn from another culture. We all know how that mentality had led China from the most powerful nation on the earth to a “Sick Giant of the East”. On the other hand, China was and has been a melting pot ever since the Emperor Huang a few thousand years ago. There is no such thing as a “pure Chinese”. Chinese people is a mix of 56 nationalities, ranging from Russians, Romans, Arabs, Jews, Mongolians, Tibetains, Turks, Koreans, Japanese, Vetnamese, etc., etc.</p>
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<p>Many IME would regard successes/awards gained something partially or totally through socio-economic advantages and family connections to be far less impressive than those gained without them. Not that such advantaged/connection assisted successes/awards shouldn’t be acknowledged. </p>
<p>Just that successes/awards gained without such advantages/connections or in spite of one’s disadvantages tends to be regarded by many as more impressive and meritorious. </p>
<p>Speaking of politicians who used family connections to gain political office…how’s that working out for our country considering the abysmal performance of one recent president related to one of the families you mentioned?? </p>
<p>There’s a good reason why awarding academic admissions, critical leadership, and government positions on the basis of socio-economic wealth (i.e. Purchase of Army Commissions in the British Army till 1870’s), political patronage(US Civil Services at all levels until the 1880’s)<em>, family connections/wealth (Legacy on steroids which existed alongside rank racial/religious discrimination at many Ivy/Elite universities until well into the mid-1960’s)</em>*, or aristocratic privilege(Civil Service/high political positions in many European countries till the late 19th or 20th centuries) are now regarded as inferior practices akin to corruption to many people in the current era. </p>
<ul>
<li>That’s when the practice of evaluating civil service candidates on the basis of standardized civil service exams was first implemented. A practice derived from China through the Indian and the British Civil Services after copying the Chinese practice.<br></li>
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<p>** A Yalie uncle recounted how much of a social gulf there was between his entering class and older Yale classes because his was one of the first to be admitted mainly on academic merit rather than one’s family connections and socio-economic wealth. According to him, the younger Bush was part of one of the older Yale entering classes.</p>
<p>Epiphany-
You aren’t correct about that, I know for a fact how Carnegie Hall is rented out, and it is as I stated, for the very simple reason of being associated with groups that have rented it out.They are rented out to groups that can pay the freight, and the only kind of screening they do is if there could be issues with the hall (for example, I believe they still limit amplified groups, like rock groups, playing there). All kinds of groups book the main hall, and there is no audition to do so, it generally is on a first come first served basis, and dates are often booked years in advance. I have seen high school music festivals booked in there where the groups performing are ordinary, I have seen recitals by community music schools, performances by regional youth orchestras not necessarily on a high level, I have seen music competitions sponsored by some local newspaper go on there, none of them particularly high level. I am sure there are times when Carnegie Hall has refused groups playing there, but outside groups playing there are not auditioned per se and the level of those groups varies widely. The New York Youth Symphony plays there, and it can be argued at times they play better then the Phil sometimes does, other youth symphonies play there that are nowhere near that level, and so forth. </p>
<p>And I wasn’t trying to compare the groups that play there to the NY Phil, I was making the point simply that ‘playing at Carnegie Hall’ doesn’t mean someone is necessarily the next Joshua Bell or Emmanual Axe, that someone can win a local music competition not on a high level and play there as winner, that’s all. Its interesting, I tried to find out what competition Sophia won, and I cannot find any reference to it (I did find a reference to a recent competition, with a local Conn orchestra…) which tells me it probably wasn’t one of the biggies. My child has played in both the main and </p>
<p>There are a lot of jokes about that, I saw an 9 year old ‘prodigy’ not long ago, who ‘made her carnegie hall debut at 7’, and what that was she won some competition sponsored by a Korean newspaper in NYC which was held at Carnegie Hall (I also saw her play, she was not at a high level at all). Some music students do that all the time and make it seem like they were up there as a guest of Carnegie Hall when they played there with some group like I am talking about <em>shrug</em>. She didn’t need to be a prodigy to play there, in other words, she could have won something like the bridgeport symphony competition and played there. It could be it was a high level competition but there is nothing that indicates to me it was.</p>
<p>OK, putting aside the fact that Amy Chua admittedly embellished/exaggerated some of the more egregious incidents in her book (hey, it gets publicity and sells books)…</p>
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<p>How is that different from all the Jewish applicants who play the violin or piano as well (and really, how do you know that is their main EA?).</p>
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<p>Maybe the “negative” aspect of Sophia’s “Asian” side was sufficently counterbalanced by her “Jewish” side in the eyes of the admissions boards at Harvard and Yale? </p>
<p>Anyway, what I find a bit underhanding is that the highly selective schools like the Ivies (purportedly) don’t want, as they put it, too many of the “typical Asian applicant”, but yet, at the same time, they are aggressively marketing themselves to Asian students in China, India and Korea.</p>
<p>And while they are also aggressively marketing themselves to URMs in the US, in particular, those from a lower socio-economic background, they don’t do the same for Asian students in the US who come from a lower socio-economic background.</p>
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<p>It depends.</p>
<p>Did she win the competition as a soloist and how prestigious was the competition?</p>
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<p>You don’t become a world reknowned pianist, violinist or cellist w/o the emotional aspect; I seem to recall a good amount world reknowned Asian classical musicians.</p>
<p><strong>Anyone with the money</strong> can rent out Carnegie Hall. Gotta have something to pay the taxes with.</p>
<p>I second musicprint’s comments about Carnegie Hall. S2 is 12, and he could have played there last month, if he hadn’t decided with his teacher to wait a year or so. He is good for his age, but far from a prodigy and, believe me, he does not practice hours and hours a day - more like 20 mins and up, 1 hour at the most, about 5 days a week. Yet we could have bragged that he made his Carnegie Hall debut at age 12.</p>
<p>I happened to overhear the conversation where the teacher brought up the possibiliity, and I heard tension and apprehension in S2’s voice as he asked how many people would be in the audience. (The tension was not because it was Carnegie Hall, but because it was the “special” performance.) This school has regular recitals open to all students in a local library auditorium, so it’s not as if S2 would not have had a chance to perform. S2 is better off waiting for CH for a year or two.</p>
<p>The key is whether Sophia (1) played as a soloist and (2) the caliber of the symphony/orchestra she played with; if it’s something along the likes of the Cleveland or Pittsburgh symphonies, then that’s pretty impressive.</p>
<h1>1723, Pizzagirl.</h1>
<p>Joking, which part?
Japanese also say the same. Very xenophobic.
Koreans too. Extremely xenophobic.
Hebrews. Muslims and Christians all have their quirks on origins. And its been documented!
Certain fractions in America believe that Citizens need to be at least 2 birth generations.
You gotta be White, Blue eyed, and blond, too. </p>
<p>If General Electric is a person, would GE be a citizen of the USA?</p>
<p>Honestly, IMHO. I haven’t read her book. </p>
<p>Amy Chua, may be a typical, over controlling, insecure, female xxxxx. 
Ethnicity isn’t considered. </p>
<p>( I did my annual P today. doctor is a she and on my case. I get home, and Wife is on my case, Going to stay at Mom’s tonite, and she’s going to be on me.) 
good nite. gotta check on Mom.</p>
<p>Tiger Mom has the inside view of the admission process- of course she knew publishing the book at that exact time would make her little Sophie a stand out applicant. Amy knew exactly what she was doing- probably called in some markers to get the sensationalized review of her book before it was published. Let’s see, she is published this year, not academic but hey she brought media attention to her employers, she is now infamous, her full name is now part of the English vernacular, Sophie accepted to Harvard, LuLu will be too, and on top of all the fame, mucho fortune. Boatloads of money to pay for all the education her girls may want. Amy is laughing all the way to the bank- it was a perfectly executed plan. I would love to know her, I’ll bet she has been hatching this plan for some time, with her friends around the dinner table. Probably started as a joke. Peels of laughter, everyone adding to the plot- but Amy started thinking- why not play on the Asian invasion fears of the public? There I said it.</p>
<p>musicprnt, I think I must have drawn that conclusion because of the fact all the music groups I know (been intimately involved with) have also been specifically invited to venues and opportunities that are definitely selective, and not open to “just anybody.” A group has to reach a very high bar to receive those invitations to play with other accomplished groups in concert, or in particular locations, so I must have jumped to the incorrect conclusion that the same standards were required for Carnegie. (i.e., a reputation) when one such group also played there. Obviously that was merely a coincidence, not a connection.</p>
<p>I went to selective music camps as a high school student in upstate New York and was also surprised at the incredibly large number of individuals at camp who claimed to have “played at Carnegie Hall” until someone explained the rental procedure to me. My sense was that it’s pretty common in the upscale suburbs for a high school orchestra to rent an auditorium so that students can claim that they have ‘played at Carnegie Hall’. The regular orchestra (not even the select one) at a high school in our area (VA) did this last year – so now I run into a “prodigy” every time I go to the grocery store. LOL.</p>
<p>Some competition result for anyone interested.</p>
<p>[Easton</a> violinist wins GBS’ Young Instrumentalists competition - Connecticut Post](<a href=“http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Easton-violinist-wins-GBS-Young-Instrumentalists-345157.php]Easton”>http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Easton-violinist-wins-GBS-Young-Instrumentalists-345157.php)</p>
<p>It just occurred to me that if I were Amy Chua, and happened to overhear a conversation between my child and a music teacher about playing at Carnegie Hall, I would not have allowed the decision not to play. In fact, knowing that the school held a concert at CH every year, I would probably have taken matters into my own hands and demanded from the start that my child participate. </p>
<p>It’s really too bad, because making these decisions is all part of a child’s education. I also trust the teacher, who is quite perceptive, to guide S2’s development as a pianist. If he thought he should have participated in the higher-level concert, he would have approached the situation differently, and encouraged S2 to take the risk.</p>
<p>But, then, Chua didn’t even allow her children to choose their instruments, let alone choose whether or not to play an instrument. This is the part that I really don’t understand about Chua’s method. How do kids coming out of these homes manage to function well as adults? Clearly, many of them do.</p>
<p>Just looked at your link, igloo. Sophia got second place - I wonder whether she was sent to bed without dinner?</p>
<p>At this age, it is more like no new prom dress?</p>
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<p>Actually, appearances can be quite deceiving. Most such kids like my close friends and HS classmates learn how to put on a great appearance in public and exert above-average levels of self-control during their HS and even college/grad school years. However, a few setbacks such as being passed over for promotion after putting in much time and effort, family problems, and/or finding out the career one was seemingly destined for was a terrible choice because it was really the parents’ pushed dream could be the catalyst for existential crises/meltdowns they conceal from everyone but themselves and possibly some close friends. </p>
<p>Best pictorial description is from some comic where a well-dressed businessman has a brave stoic public face after experiencing a catastrophic career setback. As he is proceeding through the corporate offices, several people he passes expressed admiration for his stoicism and being strong in the face of such catastrophe. However, once he has shut the door to his office and ensured he is all alone, he breaks down in uncontrollable tears.</p>