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<p>Without speaking of Sophie Chua personally, when we’re talking about people for whom money is no object, I really don’t get continuing on when one has gotten EA to a Yale, a Stanford, or an MIT. I think it’s more than a little piggish not to say – whoo hoo, go me, I got into a top school, time to withdraw all other apps and ride out the rest of senior year. It’s a little scalp-collecting, I think. But I have a stronger need for closure than some.</p>
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<p>Look out for the offsprings of another Jewish-Asian couple. Noah Feldman and Jeannie Suh, both professors at Harvard Law. Feldman was the youngest tenured law professor at NYU and his wife is the first Asian women to be tenured at Harvard Law.</p>
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<p>Because it was a “silver spoon” success. I don’t celebrate those.</p>
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I believe every success is worthy to be celebrated. Bay - I am sure there are people who may think your kids have “silver spoon” compared to them, and I certainly hope you celebrate your kid´s success. Kids who are viewed to have been born with everything handed to them have their own hurdles (some because of perception) they need to over come.</p>
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<p>No. More sorrowful concern that she may end up in the same crises my classmates who are 10+ years out of college are now going through because they’ve really been following their hothouse parents’ dreams rather than their own. </p>
<p>For every one student who was a successful product of “Tiger Parenting”, there are at least dozens who are miserable at being effective puppets of their parents’ ambitions. Many of them are close friends from high school and work. </p>
<p>As someone who attended school full of similar type parents…I thank my lucky stars my parents were nowhere near as bad and that I was never the compliant obedient type as Sophia seems to be from her apologia article and from snippets of Chua’s book. </p>
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<p>Considering the extreme controlling “Tiger parenting” Chua proudly writes about in her own book, one wonders whether the lion’s share of the success really belongs to Sophia…or if it is really Chua’s hothouse parenting?</p>
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<p>Oh I see this is a projected type schadenfreude as the pleasure would be derived from the misfortunes of others that have yet to happen. </p>
<p>Fwiw, I do not see much “misfortune” in the future. All the misfortune is in the past. As far as celebrating the success of Sophia in landing prized spots and somehow surviving her decade-long bootcamp, that is easy to do. On the other hand, this should not extend to any kind of parental success. Sophia deserves the kudos; not the Tiger Mom! </p>
<p>Regardless of the outcome, there is little to nothing worth emulating in this journey to “success.” In a few months, when the excitement of attending H or Y dissipates, Mrs. Chua might reflect on how she robbed her children of one of the most precious attributes in life, namely the right to be a normal and happy child. Perhaps, her daughter will tell how many well-balanced and smart kids she sees everyday, and how different their youth was. </p>
<p>Hopefully, there will be an end to the non-virtuous cycle.</p>
<p>The only thing that bothered me about this was the particular slant the media gave it. The headline “Tiger Mom Vindicated, Daughter Accepted to Harvard” was typical. Not universal, a few publications gave a more neutral title, like “Tiger Mom’s daughter Just Got Into Harvard.”</p>
<p>It really bothered me because Sophie’s acceptance to Harvard doesn’t change my opinion about Amy Chua’s parenting at all. Has anyone’s opinion changed? Is any one of us who are detractors now saying “Wow, Sophie got into Harvard, Amy Chua was right all along.”?</p>
<p>This is a comment on the reporting. Amy Chua hasn’t made any claims that this vindicates her parenting style and I commend her for that.</p>
<p>“Tiger Mom Vindicated! Daughter Gets Into Harvard, Proving Chinese Mothers Are…Superior? | The Blaze”</p>
<p>I am very happy for her as it’s a great school. She worked very hard, pressure or none, and she deserves that.</p>
<p>Still, I don’t see how this vindicates anything if mom’s core values are all wrong.</p>
<p>We already knew her kid was played at Carnegie Hall (an amazing achievement by any standard). Clearly, these girls are talented and performing academically and even in sports and music. That was never in question, was it? A Harvard denial could have been blamed on reverse-discrimination or infamy anyway.</p>
<p>I thought the questions were, do the ends justify the means? In my book, no. There is a certain basic set of human rights that even children have, and there is no excuse for violating them. Chua was certainly borderline in many of those cases and she did admit to crossing the line (bathroom and water breaks come to mind).</p>
<p>And then more importantly, what is success in life? Is it academic success? Monetary success? Or is it how you treat others? I know very ethical Harvard grads and I’ve heard of really awful ones. I don’t think Harvard = success.</p>
<p>But yes, very happy for this girl because at her age she is surely looking to her mom for approval and I’m glad she will get that. Maybe her mom will lighten up. :snort: Okay, well at least she will have a little more freedom. :)</p>
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<p>Actually, I do think my own kids have the “silver spoon,” (although compared to Chua’s kids, its more like a “silver-plated spoon”), which is why I don’t expect others to celebrate my kids’ successes. I and our family certainly celebrate them, and I think that is enough. I don’t know why cbreeze thinks we all should celebrate Sophia’s success in being admitted to Harvard when the deck was stacked in her favor with just about every possible advantage.</p>
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<p>Moreover, acceptance is really the start of a journey on a path to potential success…not necessarily a successful end in itself. Celebrations, IMHO, should be saved for achievements such as Deans Lists, academic/EC awards, and especially graduations.</p>
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LOL. I am going to tell my kids that.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I think we can still be happy for other more fortunate people´s success, we don´t necessary need to see them fail in order to make ourselves feel good, which I believe that is how Cobrat feels. In every single post he has ever made is about how those wealthy, spoiled, entitled kids will fail someday. His cousins went to private schools, while he went to public schools, and he wants to say it over and over again how he has done better than his cousins.</p>
<p>As so nicely put by Bay, my kids were born with “silver plated spoon” too. Not to pat ourselves on the back, they are very nice kids and are very grateful of everything that´s been given to them. I think there are many kids like mine in CC and in real life.</p>
<p>It would be hard for me to believe that all of Sophia´s success to date has been due to her parents.</p>
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<p>No, but that’s because getting into Harvard isn’t The True Meaning of Life.</p>
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<p>That will greatly depend on 2 things:</p>
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<li><p>Whether Amy Chua lightens up on her overly micromanaging ways. Having encountered many classmates’ parents similar to her type…wouldn’t count on it.</p></li>
<li><p>Whether Sophia could become more like Lulu and show some strong independence/dissent when and if her parents…especially mom chooses to meddle in areas that IMHO should really be her responsibility and hers alone (i.e. choice of courses, choice of major, grade disputes with Profs, EC/internship choices, etc). Unfortunately, there are parents who continue to micromanage their childrens’ lives in college in those very listed areas as several college classmates and friends who TA/teach undergrad courses at various elite universities have witnessed/experienced firsthand.</p></li>
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<p>Does anyone think that there are a few nervous Yale and Harvard admitted students? I’d be worried to see my housemates’ assignment and see S. Chua listed. This said they might enjoy the grand piano that will be delivered. </p>
<p>Roommates’ Mother of Hell might be a new term for the Class of 2015.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is fair to claim that Sophia got in without hard work, it is obvious she has done a lot of things, even if I don’t agree with her mom’s methods or think they are a great way to raise a kid (I don’t, for a number of reasons). My hope is that she finds what truly motivates her and finds the way to lead the kind of life she wishes to and doesn’t do something her parents want her to and she finds what she wants, whatever that is, whether it is as an investment banker, lawyer, or as someone who writes beautiful poetry or opens a great hamburger place. It is true that kids who live with the kind of pressure Sophia does do end up having problems later, read the many memoirs of people who grew up like she did and learned to resent it, talk to professional therapists about the bright, achieving people they have in their practice who aren’t happy, despite what too many believe, money alone doesn’t make people happy and achieving the ambitions of the parent is not necessarily the road to happiness.</p>
<p>I also think that despite what oldfort and others claim, Sophia’s background made it easier for her, while getting into a top notch school is an accomplishment, it is a lot easier when you have the means to do so. Her parents are uber educated, they both have ivy pedigrees (which means among other things Sophia came in with the plus of being a legacy, something only the blind would deny goes on), and they had the best of everything growing up. When you have the scion of intelligent, educated, well off parents, they have to work to achieve (well, unless they inherit wealth and daddy greases the skids all the way), but comparing what they have done is like comparing someone who built a house using expensive equipment, best materials and the like and employed crews of people to do it, to someone who built their own house using a hammer and saw and scrounged materials and did it themself. Malcolm Gladwell talks about this, and other books have as well, that achieving isn’t just about intelligence, that having the opportunities of their background makes a big difference. In one book, they profiled two kids who were equally gifted, one whose parents were blue collar, and one whose parents were well off professionals, and the difference in their trajectory could be tied to their class…I think she deserves being congratulated, but it wasn’t like she was hefting the rock of sisyphus either, she had a lot of things helping grease her way other kids don’t have that along with her work made this happen. </p>
<p>I also suspect that her mom’s book might have influenced this, as well as the fact that both parents are professors at Yale, given the notoriety, and the fact that they tend to give preference to the kids of professors, not to mention legacies, it sure as heck didn’t hurt her.</p>
<p>What disturbs me is the title of the article, claiming that this ‘vindicates’ chua’s methods, that is BS. If Sophia’s parents were immigrants or of modest means, if she wasn’t a legacy, didn’t have parents with PHd educations, and she got in you might be able to argue it, but I could easily argue that Sophia could easily have gotten in without the tiger mom stuff, that if she had had a more standard path she probably would have achieved and gotten in…that is using a single case to prove a point, which is ridiculous. More importantly, it leaves out that a)many kids who come from ‘tiger mom’s’ didn’t get into the ivy schools (take a look at the CC board with parents shocked their kids didn’t get in), and the many who don’t who do get in.</p>
<p>BTW, for the poster who talked about her playing Carnegie Hall, that in of itself doesn’t mean anything. I believe in her case, she got in by winning a competition with a regional orchestra that plays Carnegie Hall, and there are a ton of regional orchestras, high school orchestras and such that do that, and they do so, not because they are spectacular, but because they rent out the main auditorium. Likewise, tons of people have recitals in Carnegie Hall’s recital rooms, several Jewish families we know rented them out for their kids bar mitzvahs, and the only ticket to getting there is someone having the money to rent it out. There is a big difference between that and playing with a major orchestra like the NY Phil or the like, or being presented by Carnegie Hall.</p>
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<p>Can you verify this?</p>
<p>I read that she won first prize in an international competition. Her parents didn’t rent out the hall. I for one, think it’s a great accomplishment in winning first prize in a international competition.</p>
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<p>Regarding the grand piano issue, nothing that a Marshall amp cranked to 21 and a Telecaster, Stratocaster, Flying V, or Explorer cannot solve. :D</p>
<p>Maybe she’ll encounter roommates will turn her on to some MC5, Runaways, Ramones, Clash, etc. 
:D</p>
<p>On the other hand, the fact Sophia is into Daft Punk along with her parents may be cause for great alarm. :D</p>
<p>I don’t know what competition Sophia Chua won, but I can tell you that S2 had the opportunity to play at Carnegie Hall this spring. Our local music school holds a recital there every year for the most advanced students. This does not mean anything more than a music school in Chicago or Atlanta holding a recital in their city’s nicest hall. (S2 decided to wait a year or two before doing this. If he had done it, I would have had some fun emailing my relatives, who don’t live in NY.)</p>
<p>This is getting strange.
OK, she got into her schools because of her intrinsic abilities. Or her connections. Or the notoriety of her mother.
Fine. Whatever.
Now it is up to her to take advantage of these opportunities and make a full life.</p>
<p>I’m sorry but it’s not so simple as “signing up” and “renting” Carnegie Hall. In order to play there the group has to be accomplished enough to play there. There are not enough open dates at Carnegie to accommodate every “regional orchestra” that wants to go.</p>
<p>And obviously “there is a big difference” from the NY Phil. Why? These are high school students we’re talking about, the vast majority of whom are not free enough from academic responsibilities to audition for a professional orchestra like the Philharmonic.</p>
<p>What classifies an amateur youth orchestra as being of above-average quality is if it is truly a ‘pre-professional’ orchestra: a lot of its members are good enough to matriculate to conservatories, get into a college-level music school/program through audition, etc.</p>