If that was the case I suspect Cornell would have expelled a lot more students over the years and shut most of the frats down by now.
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Exactly.
Are you for real? She thought this guy was her friend. Are men not warned about what consent is that it’s always “but the girl should have …”? Do you think Jane Doe dropped out of college for no reason and is doing this for funsies?
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But given the title of the thread, I think there was already a bias against Dr Kotlikoff.
The school, did in fact, take significant action based on what they knew. Whether it was enough or not, I don’t know.
But I do know Mr Kotlikoff was guilty in your eyes b4 the story resurfaced.
I understand the rage - but rage doesn’t mean someone is guilty.
@SJ2727 yes girls are warned. My daughter was warned. Schools put out policies. I’m not advocating it was ok that she was, if she was, sexually assaulted. We don’t know she was. A trial will determine.
But taking ten drinks and taking drugs -she didn’t ask for it but she could have not put herself in this position. Again, according to the DA this was consensual. Did anyone check her blood alcohol level ? We don’t knkw she was drunk. I’m not saying she deserved this but if our kids made solid choices -not taking drinks that aren’t sealed, watching your drinks, limiting, having a designated sober person with you - you now have 8 or 9 kids in a he said she said that should never have happened.
I’m not victim blaming but I’m tired of kids or people putting themselves into these drunken stupors where this stuff can be avoided - regardless of gender. After all, all genders are created equal.
You all have fried Dr Kotlikoff. I don’t know him but you fried him bcuz you don’t like him because if the driving incident. And I think it’s unfair (at this time) and wrong and it’s why I wrote.
You 100% are.
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Your opinion. You and I don’t know - maybe the guys are victims. Only girls have a consent issue.
I’m not here to argue. It’s a $hitty situation and I think both sides failed. This could be any of our kids. Where has it gone wrong.
But I simply wanted to note we don’t know what happened so calling for the Presudebts head seems premature.
Who’s the victim ? You assume but you don’t know who. Hopefully a trial, if it happens, will clear that up.
I can only assume you have read a very limited amount about the case if that’s your best response.
Seems like these kinds of crimes are not handled that well (in terms of actually finding whether the accused is guilty) by police and courts. Cannot imagine university administrators or committees being any better at figuring this stuff out.
NYS law has “voluntary intoxication loophole” as discussed at New York’s Rape Laws Leave Out Many Victims Who Drank Willingly - The New York Times . As I understand the “loophole”, the key part of lack of consent due to intoxication is whether the alcohol/marjiuana/ketamine/… was consumed voluntarily or involuntarily. So long as the victim is not unconscious, it may be difficult to successfully press lack of consent criminal charges, if the drugs were consumed voluntarily. The prosecutor discusses this in his statement at https://www.tompkinscountyny.gov/files/assets/county/v/1/district-attorney/documents/district-attorney-public-statement-9-28-26.pdf .
That said, I am in no way defending the Cornell frat students actions. The details are too despicable and graphic for me to expand on this forum. I’ll only say that there is a good amount of evidence beyond he said / she said, including a group chat screen shot.
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IMO, the group chat is pretty damning evidence.
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Sorry. I was unable to respond - it said read only.
I get this is a sensitive issue.
@SJ2727 you are correct. It was featured on cnn today so I read more on an open site, just today.
I simply am a believer in letting things play out the the law and not jumping to conclusions.
And I do think all, whether a victim or not, have a responsibility to keep ourselves and others safe where we can.
When these things happen at our most exclusive places, a place so many fall over themselves to get into, then it can happen anywhere. And no person or parent should have to face this.
I’m simply wanting to allow the law to take its course and given the title of the thread, not to demonize the president, which has already happened here with many.
I’ll leave it there. We have no reason to continue to restate but I hope if there was a crime, it’s handled appropriately.
Based on the DA statement, it seems that the civil lawsuit has information that was not provided 2 years ago, and now people are upset that Cornell and the Ithaca DA made decisions based on the information provided 2 years ago, not with the information that has now come up.
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Personally, I am fed up with a system that allows colleges and universities to treat SA as a disciplinary or educational issue rather than a public safety issue.
Cornell is in the hot seat right now but this could have happened anywhere (and it does in fact happen everywhere).
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I don’t disagree that SA is a serious issue, but based on the DA statement, it just seems that Cornell punished what was punishable at the time based on the information and now new information has come to light.
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Possibly. Or maybe they were negligent in some way. The bigger issue is the system that brings these matters into an in-house disciplinary committee comprised of faculty and staff. A history professor and an admissions dean - or whoever ends up on these committees - have no business hearing disciplinary cases that involve sexual trauma.
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Exactly. No wonder the victims sometimes feel like they have to leave the school.
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It is my understanding that Cornell Police referred it the DA and the DA came back to Cornell with a decision based on Jane Doe’s written statement. I am basing this on the DA statement that was published yesterday. So it seems Cornell acted upon the recommendations of the DA, not just internal panels.
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I would think if someone were a victim, male or female, they might leave for not having to face the same place each and every day.
My daughter had a friend who, I don’t know exactly what happened and my daughter wasn’t sure the female knew as she blacked out, but she was gone the entire semester.
I could certainly see someone with such trauma 1) shutting down period and 2) if they wanted to go back to school, do so as a commuting from home student so they had that safety net or 3) getting a fresh start elsewhere.
So there might be myriad reasons they would leave school and justifiably so.
And @CGLM I do think those responding on the thread have a bias against Dr. Kotlikoff, based upon not just yesterday’s news, but the incent that started this thread.
We all want to “judge” from the outside but truthfully, like in most things in life, we don’t have the facts.
I think that’s a rather sweeping and inaccurate generalization. Speaking just for myself, my first post on the thread was yesterday, and it was in response to the articles that @admmda shared about this issue.
And I did not declare that the president should be removed. I said that if the allegations proved to be true, then the president (and related officials inolved with this matter) should be removed:
I wasn’t a fan of the the actions of Cornell’s president’s upthread, but I didn’t view them as egregiously as some others. But if Cornell wants to throw the book at some protesters it finds guilty of offenses through its protocols, then it should throw the book at those guilty of other offenses (which are offenses that most would consider far worse than the earlier ones). Inconsistency in how offenses are handled weakens one’s argument, whatever it is.
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@AustenNut It’s a generalization supported by the thread if you go back to the beginning. I wasn’t talking specifically about one person but the overall tone of posters - which is how I perceive it.
Many calls for his termination. I suggested he wouldn’t be terminated based on the video and what was shown, that he didn’t do anything wrong or anyone in his position wouldn’t do and none of us were in the meetings, but the school board agreed. But most posters thought he should be gone - and I can respect that opinion.
And then yesterday it started with “It feels like an appropriate moment to put the spotlight back on Cornell’s president.”
And many of the comments were about how Cornell handled wrong.
I was a part of the initial (hitting a student with the car post) and it’s been heavy anti Dr. Kotlikoff.
We can agree to disagree - but the subject of the thread is behavior unbecoming and I believe many posters are biased against - both then (the car incident) and how this was handled two years ago and one comment said the administration and other senior level people should be gone. But if you read through, you’ll see on average, most thought Dr. Kotlikoff should have been moved along - and that was prior to yesterday’s new news. That’s a fair opinion if people think that. I have no issue.
That’s all I was saying.
On each thread, there is typically bias one way or another - so this thread wouldn’t be any different.