being respectful of teen posters

Paying for College
1

<p>I think parent posters who respond to teen OPs should make more of an effort to avoid second-guessing someone else’s financial strategy or decisions. It’s especially unfair to judge someone’s PARENTS’ decisions or behavior. A teen is in such a delicate, inherently contradictory place, in the process of separating from parents, but dependent on the parents for filling out forms, providing moral and financial support, etc. While all of this is going on, teens naturally feel a lot of empathy and loyalty to their parents, but at the same time are starting to question some things about their parents. Some of what I read on this thread made me think of chickens running in and pecking where a drop of blood is visible.</p>

<p>This forum is so well set up – it is very easy to make your own thread to talk about financial strategies and decisions, cost of living, civil service jobs, whatever you want! And you can always post a link to your new thread.</p>

<p>I don’t want to get into an argument, pardon me, I mean discussion, about this, I just want to offer this as food for thought.</p>

2

<p>Yes, we need to be sensitive. But some young people and their parents need a strong dose of reality, to avoid making very very bad decisions that will harm them over the long-term. I communicated with one guy who ran up $29,000 of debt (mostly private loans) in his FRESHMAN year of college, while working on a political science degree.</p>

3

<p>It’s possible to give hard advice and a dose of reality without the snide/condescending comments toward teens that I’ve seen on this forum that question their and their parent’s intelligence. Any sentence written in a snide/condescending manner could easily be re-written in a straightforward manner. And many of these snide/condescending remarks come from long-time knowledgeable posters. All it takes is a second to think about the tone of what is being written and re-write it.</p>

4

<p>There are many wonderful things to be gained from a forum like this. However, it is easy for anonymous people, both parents and teens, to be less than kind when offering opinions. This is a good reminder for all who post here … let’s keep advice just that … advice.</p>

<p>Yes, there will be times we offer reality checks. Being honest is fine. We just have to make sure our advice is just that. Yes, we can offer our opinions … let’s just try to keep them civil. Most of us do that, fortunately.</p>

<p>I know that there are times I want to smack folks upside the head. I try hard to refrain from posting in those instances. ;)</p>

5

<p>Completely agree. I try and just post factual information and not my opinions of people’s decisions (though I do share my opinions of excessive loans and their impact). </p>

<p>I do particularly dislike it when people are condescending or rude to the students asking for advice. A lot of these kids seem to be trying to negotiate this on their own without a lot of parental input. That must be incredibly difficult for someone with limited life experience and understanding of financial matters.</p>

6

<p>I understand your desire to keep things nice in here, and I agree that it is always a good idea to read a post before actually clicking submit, just to make certain that it is not unnecessarily harsh, for example. I am pretty new to this forum, and while I have read some abrupt posts, I have never doubted for a second that those who post only have the OPs interests in mind. Some people think that some of the OPs, especially some of the young people who post in here to ask strangers for guidance rather than their parents, are heading into a fire, and they just want to stop them and help prevent the burn.</p>

<p>There is a reason why Simon Cowell was the favorite judge on American Idol - people, especially young people, appreciate being told the truth, even if it hurts. Could he have been more diplomatic? Sure, I guess, but look where diplomacy sometimes gets us - right back into war.</p>

<p>I don’t have my kids exploring this site - I do that for them, and I have learned a lot even though I thought I had been pretty well versed in this whole college admissions experience. I am grateful for all of the great advice, whether elegantly stated or shoved in my face.</p>

<p>But some kids (as is obvious by their posts) don’t have parents exploring this site, and they are doing it on their own, and while I hope they don’t get their feelings hurt or get discouraged, I am more hopeful that they will get the truth and that some of the wise sages in here will help them change their legacies, avoid the debt trap, avoid making financial mistakes that will haunt them for decades to come. If some of those warnings come across as harsh, well, I hope those young people know that those wise sages really care about them - even though they may be strangers.</p>

<p>Best thing some of those kids could do, of course, would be to get their parents logged in here gleaning all of this great information. I can say without reservation that finding this site over the summer has totally changed the trajectory of my kids’ college ambitions, leading them to opportunities we did not know about, opening doors they never expected. I will be eternally grateful - I cannot say that strongly enough.</p>

7

<p>^^^^ This is what those of us who post here hope to hear!</p>

8

<p>I agree with the OP. It is not what you say it’s how you say it. You can convey a thought without having to be rude.</p>

9

<p>Agree and wish more of the parents would follow that advice. Sometimes it’s clear you get more snippers than true advice. Realty checks are fine it’s the sarcasm And attacks on family, judgement, life style, etc, etc…</p>

10

<p>I think the OP made a great point. It’s fine to be direct and blunt. But there’s no need to get into judgments about how parents have chosen to spend or save their money in the past. The teen had no control over that, and someone reading a post doesn’t have the full picture anyway. People should stick to comments that are actually helpful instead of ones that are indirectly intended to give themselves a pat on the back.</p>

11

<p>I hope I am one who is viewed as a “stating the facts” poster. The only time I probably become critical is when the same facts/opinions are stated over and over by multiple respondents, but the OP of a thread keeps saying “but but but”.</p>

<p>I can’t change the facts that I know. But I do find it frustrating when someone cannot understand that facts are facts.</p>

12

<p>This is a great post, and I too have been on threads with teen posters where others have been critical of them or their parents. I think it is a great idea to remind everyone that they are teens.
I have some of my own guidelines, that I follow myself. I think it is important to not come between the teen and their parents. If the teen is having family distress- or posts about what they see as unreasonable parents, I think it is fair to advise them to seek counseling from the guidance counselor or other professional or trusted adult in their lives who can work with the whole family.
Some teen posters are religious. I have seen some posts critical of religion, but this is the domain of the parents and the teen.
Families have different financial situations and many teens don’t know the entirety of their parents’ finances. Each family has to decide what fits them best.
While we would hope that parents are on here, the fact is that some kids are more involved in the college search than their parents. I think it is good that they are taking some responsibility for this, and finding info on their own. I agree that we should be truthful, but kind.</p>

13

<p>I agree that students have no control over how their parents spend their money…and whether or not the parents will pay some/most/all of their college costs…even if an EFC says that they can. </p>

<p>however, when the students are posting things like, “my parents earn $250k per year and have $500k in investments, but they bought a $1M home recently so I should get aid,” then these students need to be told that: "You’re not going to get aid just because your parents can’t pay for college because they chose to buy a pricey home. " </p>

<p>I agree that the student has no control over the situation, but the student needs a reality check so that: 1) he will know that colleges aren’t going to see that as a special consideration. 2) he will devise a strategy and a school list that WILL work. </p>

<p>Otherwise, letting the kid live in La La Land just means seeing the same kid post in April that he has no affordable schools.</p>

14

<p>Families have different financial situations and many teens don’t know the entirety of their parents’ finances</p>

<p>this is very true. That why some of nearly always ask, “How much have your parents SAID that they’ll pay.” Too many times we’ve had kids say things like, “oh, my parents make a good income, so they can probably pay $40k (or whatever) per year.” But, then when we press for them to actually ASK their parents, they’ll often come back with something like, "my parents said that they can only pay $20k per year (or whatever). </p>

<p>Most kids have no concept of where the money is supposed to come from. Since most families in America do NOT have college savings accts, if those families have to come up with $24k+ per year, then that’s either going to come from current income (at $2k a month)…or from loans…or some combo. Most families do not have an extra $2k per month…heck, most don’t have an extra $1k per month. but, students often can’t process that. </p>

<p>And if the family has more than one child to put thru college, then taking out loans can be very scary stuff. Rarely would the parent be done paying off Child 1’s loans when it’s time to take out loans for Child 2…or 3 or 4.</p>

<p>And, then there’s the NYU hopefuls…Yes, the ones with super stats and need might get a very nice pkg. But, then there are the poor Pell kids with good stats who’ve been given FA pkgs with $35k Plus Loans…and they think that is ok!</p>

15

<p>Reality is good, and I agree with M2CK that it is best that students are informed. I don’t think some teens, who have not been earning a living, have a good grasp on college expenses. Some parents I have spoken to don’t realize that the elite schools give virtually no merit aid. I’ve also spoken to parents who find a huge discrepancy between what they think they need and what the college thinks they need.
Parents have different situations. A self employed and/or older parent, who has no pension, may be very concerned about retirement. A younger parent making the same income with a pension might be able to spend more on college. Some families are larger than others, cost of living is different, and so on.
I think that posters who give accurate information to teens and parents are doing a great service. It’s heartbreaking to read the posts of kids whose parents have “sticker shock” at the end.
I think the OP of this post is referring to posters who are overly critical in their posts. I think it’s impressive that the teens are posting, and thinking about this issue ahead of time.</p>

16

<p>Does anyone remember when we were not allowed to ask our parents about income? My parents were extremely private about it. I had a hunch there were financial issues but they would not tell me. I applied to my in state colleges because they were relatively more affordable. They had a hard time even helping with that, but I never knew the details of why.
There is a carry over from that, and some parents don’t feel comfortable telling kids all the financial details, but we gave our kids a range of what we could do.</p>

17

<p>Yes, it is important to identify what your family can pay from loans, savings and current income.
Students can also do their bit by exploring affordable schools and not getting hung up on “dream” schools.</p>

<p>My family did not talk with us about money or plans for after high school.
We were expected to be an adult at 18.</p>

18

<p>Does anyone remember when we were not allowed to ask our parents about income?</p>

<p>Yes…and that still goes on. We’ve seen posts here from kids whose parents won’t provide info. That’s the parents choice. Some parents, who know their kids best, know that their own children might not truly understand that much/most of the family income is already “spoken for.” </p>

<p>That said, I know many of us are very concerned when we see well-meaning low-income single parents indicating that they’re willing to co-sign large loans to give their child “their dream”. I think it makes many of us sick to our stomachs knowing what’s likely going to happen later…no one likes to see a train-wreck in slow-motion.</p>

19

<p>To be respectful of teen posters about these serious financial issues, the best thing one can do is tell them to talk to their parents and seek out help from people who understand their financial situation rather than relying on help from anonymous people on the internet who don’t have the details and the context.</p>

<p>Giving advice, like I saw in another thread, of “go to a cheaper school since all engineering schools are the same” is irresponsible and a disservice to the teen.</p>

20

<p>Some of the things I think that teen posters do not realize</p>

<p>Their parents are first in line when it comes to paying for their college education.</p>

<p>Need based aid is made available through the generosity of other people’s parents (taxpayers, alumni, full freight paying parents, families that donate to colleges via the parents/grand parents fund, annual fundraising drive, etc).</p>

<p>The overwhelming majority of schools do not meet 100% demonstrated need</p>

<p>There is often sticker shock when one finds out that the school determines the family’s ability to pay and financial aid is given based on what the college thinks the family should pay not what the family wants to pay.</p>

<p>When a parent says that they are only willing to pay/borrow “X” dollars, that the tuition fairy is not magically going to make money appear.</p>

<p>Loans must be repaid and are not dischargeable through bankruptcy</p>

<p>They as teenagers can not simply borrow "no matter what it takes for me to attend my dream school "</p>

<p>No, the process is not fair. </p>

<p>No, the school is not trying to screw you over.</p>

<p>Not all parents have the same philosophies when it comes to financing college</p>