<p>As Berkeley is a state uni. it accepts vast majority of its students from Cali and only like 5% (correct me if I’m wrong) of out of state and internationals. </p>
<p>I often hear that the reason why Berkeley is able to maintain its high state, is mostly cuz of the out-of-state and international students. </p>
<p>And I personally agree with that idea as well… I’ve read several stats of those who were admitted or rated to have a very decent chance at Berkeley. If I compare the stats between in state and out state, the difference is rather huge. So is it realli the 5% of the Berkeley students who maintains the 2# world rank and Berkeley’s presitge?</p>
<p>I concurrently enrolled and did one summer at UCB. I have 29 CC semester credits and 17 UCB semester credits. The classes I’ve taken at UCB completely blew my mind away. I learned more from one class than an entire full-time semester at my CC. </p>
<p>I took one class which was taught by someone who turned down the opportunity to be an Aramaic consultant for the movie “Passion of Christ.” </p>
<p>My basis for comparison is weak as the only other higher education institution I’ve attended was at the American University in Cairo. But to answer your question, Berkeley really is all that – not to mention an additional bag of chips, cool ranch flavored.</p>
<p>30,341 California residents applied, and of them 26% got accepted.
4,653 Non-residents applied, and of them 21% got accepted.<br>
1,777 International students applied, and 12% got accepted.</p>
<p>As a state school, it comes as no surprise that a majority of the applicants are from in-state. Of those who enrolled, only 393 out of 3821 are out of state or international students (about 10%). It would be a hard case to sell that Berkeley’s prestige is enhanced by (1) students alone and (2) because of 10% of the undergraduate student population. </p>
<p>This post also implies that the vast majority of those that are admitted from in-state California and decide to go there, aren’t very bright and don’t have much to contribute to the university - which is just ridiculous. </p>
<p>If we were to try to determine where Berkeley’s prestige comes from, there’s so much more to it. Just to name a couple - in addition to a very strong student population (comprised mostly of California residents), Berkeley’s reputation/history as a place of discoveries and world-changing research plays a big part. Faculty quality and first-rate grad schools also are great contributors to increasing the overall prestige of the school’s name. </p>
<p>Anyway, my point is, it just seems ridiculous and quite pompous (if you’re out of state) to think that Berkeley’s prestige hangs so much on out-of-state and international students.</p>
<p>I don’t want to ridicule the school, but seriously, top Californian applicants will normally choose Stanford and Caltech over Berkeley (for undergrad). However, I must admit that the out-state, especially the international students at Berkeley are of first rate.</p>
<p>There are more students of Caltech caliber at Berkeley than at Caltech. There are about the same number of students of Stanford caliber at Berkeley. The top 25% of students at Berkeley are about equal to the entire student body at Harvard in both quality and number. What people sometimes fail to understand is that the average student is of lower quality than, say , Harvard but Berkeley is so large that there are a whole bunch of students that are above that average. The top students at Berkeley could have easily chosen any school in the United States to attend. It is obvious by their selection that Berkeley was their number one choice school.</p>
<p>I’m a big fan of Berkeley also, but I don’t really agree with shyboy. I’ve taken classes at Berkeley, and I studied abroad with students from every Ivy League school. </p>
<p>This is my personal opinion: The quality of education at Berkeley is about as good as any Ivy or Stanford. But the quality of students at Berkeley isn’t as good.</p>
<p>Here’s one interesting fact: The most applied-to school in the country: UCLA.</p>
<p>communist smurf, I agree with you if you are talking about the average quality of Berkeley students being less than those of Stanford, Caltech, Harvard or other such schools. I was not talking about averages though. I was talking about the TOP students. Keep in mind that the Berkeley undergraduate population is almost 4 times that of Harvard. Do you really think that the top, say 25% of the Berkeley undergraduate student body is less qualified than the entire Harvard student body? The average student at Berkeley is arguably inferior than the average Harvard student but I was not talking about that. I was talking about the TOP 25% or so Berkeley students because the top Berkeley students are about equal in number to the entire Harvard student body.</p>
<p>“There are more students of Caltech caliber at Berkeley than at Caltech”</p>
<p>Hmm, I’m not too sure for undergrad, since I think only EECS dept has the most top-cream students. However, it is possibly true , but then as I said, they are mostly international students or outstater. It’s not to say that there are no distinct Californian students at Berkeley, however, they just seems more attracted to Stanford or Caltech (we should take the vote of all valedictorians in CA :))</p>
<p>I will support your argument against Harvard, however I would say 10% instead of 25%. You still could hardly find a academically distinct Berkeley student in the ratio 1:4. </p>
<p>You must notice that the top cream international student and out-stater (abt 10% of Berkeley population), together with 1-2% distinct in-state Cal-student make a <em>really</em> strong student body whose avg is the same if not better than avg Harvard student :)</p>
<p>LOL! Trust me, every single Asian 1550+ SAT scorer at Berkeley that I met was from California. And I met tons. Remember that Berkeley’s median SAT score does not use the Best Verbal + Best Math system. Its a best sitting system, which is usually about 40-50 points lower. Also with the fact that Berkeley accepts disadvantaged, first time college, who did not do well on SAT, but got good grades types in very high numbers, it also obscures the reality of the upper tier. </p>
<p>The fact is, the 1550+ SAT Asian scorer from California has a 10% chance of getting accepted at HYS, there is too many of us and we are a dime a dozen to these fickle academic committees. So the rest go to Berkeley. This is the main reason why Berkeley consistently has the greatest number of National Merit Finalists. Personally, I took the SAT when the ceiling was much higher in 1994, and my friends at Yale said they never saw anyone with a higher score than mine. And they were SAT score whores. Not to brag, of course, but facts are facts. </p>
<p>Anyways, people don’t come to Berkeley just for the West Coast, Academics, or even the cheap tuition. They come for the Berkeley experience. Thats why a lot of rich ass Taiwanese/Korean/Chinese kids choose Berkeley over other schools. Because of the top prestige of Berkeley in Asia ( Most people in Asia think of Berkeley as God Like status) and also the stories of the campus. Berkeley was after all voted one of the top 5 towns in America in 1999. </p>
<p>Now I forgot what I was talking about. Damm I miss that place.</p>
<p>But when considering total college experience Berkeley > Cal Tech, so many top engineers go to Berkeley over Cal Tech. Cal Tech does not lose any acceptees to MIT, but they do in fact lose them to Berkeley. </p>
<p>Anyways, Cal Tech is a great school. Part of the Ivy West.</p>
<p>rtk - i am taking a math class at UC Berkeley (Math 53M, mostly engineers and science majors) and these kids are brilliant. EECS definitely isnt the only strong department. ANY ENGINEERING is strong at berkeley… not to mention it has the TOP Poli Sci department(undergrad) in the country and is also one of the best in many Social science departments (English, economics, etc etc)… Berkeley is not just strong in engineering, its social sciences also house many strong students, but it also houses a lot of the average to mediocre students… who, however, do add a diversity that Harvard, Stanford or Cal Tech is no where close to. At Berkeley, you will run into students from ALL corners of life (yes, even the ones from East Oakland who used to deal crack on a street corner as a teenager)… that is something that HYPSM will never have because of their high level of “elitism”. Berkeley feels very much down-to-earth, and you get to experience the real-world, where you have to fend for yourself… not to mention the hobos and crackheads that live around it… but berkeley’s experience is quite unique…</p>
<p>You made many mistakes, first Caltech couldn’t possibly beat MIT except may be for slighter stronger student body and smaller classes. Secondly, Caltech does not lose acceptees to Berkeley, it loses them to Stanford, MIT and Harvard. Finally you mentioned about Berkeley experience, yes, undoubtedly it has tons of experience unobtained anywhere else. However, typical Asians, Chinese and Korean (that come from Asia), will prioritize academics prestige over experience, hence I don’t think most Asian, including myself, come to state to feel ‘Berkeley’ experience. Also notice that the percentage of Cal students who obtain 1500+ is not high, definitely lower than 25%, let’s face it.</p>
<p>irock1ce,</p>
<p>i know that Berkeley’s brains do not all converge in EECS however, by percentage I would say EECS’ students have the highest stats among all; EECS dept is the most respected dept, at least for outsider. Don’t mix the undergrad and grad students there. The grad students are every bit as good as any of HYPSMC, but their undergrads are not. Unfortunately, the diversity you mentioned (also modesty, I don’t notice that Cal students are down to earth when they meet UC Irvine student for example LOL!) was not related to my points.</p>
<p>I think my prev post sounds pretty nasty, anyway I just want to say that Berkeley doesn’t lack anything for the best education. However, its distribution of the students are really not uniform, most often than not, dominated by out-staters and international students.</p>