I was surprised to read that too. When my D negotiated a higher sign on bonus, her company retroactively gave the whole cohort that amount. The only variable was in relocation $ because it was based on distance. Since she’s graduated, they now do a cost of living bonus for higher costs areas as well. Absolutely nothing is based on the school attended.
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100% but schools often thread the needle in marketing as they imply things.
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Another school that might (?) be a target is St. Lawrence University, also in upstate NY. Rural area with a cute little town. They have a business major and also a combined program with RIT (MBA). I don’t know about affordability but you can use the NPC.
Your daughter liked the University of Delaware. It’s a beautiful school and I know two recent grads who are quite successful. Glad she likes it!!
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You are looking at best academic reputation vs best price. I suggest you add…best fit for your kid (not the parents, the student). IMHO, the way a student views a school should be the key element in the college selection process…because the student is going to college, not the parent.
My opinion.
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Cheers to SUNY! Was just speaking to fellow SUNY grad friend this past weekend whose daughter is in the accounting program at SUNY Oswego. She loves it and has already had two summer internships; the most recent one asked her to stay on and work part time remotely while she is back at college.
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I understand that the school is not a good fit, but here is the academic data:
GPA- 3.84
SAT math mid 50% 620-720
SAT R/W mid 50% 620-700
ACT 27-32 mid 50%
You have not posted much about rigor but based on what you wrote it seems like the school could be an academic match for your daughter. This does not mean it is a good fit and I am not suggesting that she apply.
Looks to me like there are plenty of good students at Penn State.
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Oswego is one of the few schools with a tech ed program. My local high school has big CAD, automotive, and carpentry programs and sends kids there every year for tech ed. There are a lot of jobs in that field right now.
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However, aspirations of those “highly driven” graduates differ in different parts of the country. My S’s classmates in LA mostly wanted to go to top cities (LA, SF, DC, NY), whereas D’s classmates in the Mountain West prioritized being in places with a great outdoor lifestyle after college.
It’s not surprising driven UMass grads would have similar aspirations to relatively nearby schools like Harvard. But the aspirations of state (or private) college grads in CO, UT, AZ etc are not necessarily the same.
Maybe OP’s kid is only considering schools in the northeast. But the further you go away from that area, the more likely that post-college aspirations may be different.
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Yes. Money may be the easiest (and laziest) way to measure “success”, but success means different things to different people.
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In the case of OP, or at least the parent, that seems a reasonable assumption given they’ve recommended accounting for the student as it will be less limiting - ie better chance at a good job - is how I see that.
There is a lot in this thread for OP to noodle on. Not sure if they are coming back. Hope so.
I actually think she is set. Hopefully the OP returns.
She could apply to Pitt, Delaware, and a few of the privates that she likes. I would add 1-2 more true safeties (maybe Hartwick, Susquehanna, Providence for example). Once all of the results are in they can compare fit and cost and then decide.
Hartwick’s cost is very reasonable. It is about finding the right fit for the student at a cost that is good for the family.
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Decades ago there was a peer reviewed study that showed that it’s not which college you went to that is correlated w/ career earnings, but where you were admitted; i.e., those who were admitted to top ranked schools but chose to go to a lower rank school for financial or other reasons… their earnings were just as high as those who attended the top ranked schools. The implication is that the key ingredient to financial success is the student, not the school. Then more recently there was a follow-up study by the same researcher, and that paper reported that attending a prestigious school is associated with higher income in some cases, and the most significant differences were seen for minorities. I seem to recall the increase was about 5-10%. So, overall, I am not persuaded that your daughter will earn more simply by going to to a private school.
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It makes sense that minorities would benefit from the cover of legitimacy given the realities of biases in hiring.
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I think op either got what they came for - no ED to Nova or didn’t like the answers - as they’ve not returned.
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I didn’t see the original study but I think I saw this one being reported on. I don’t remember the details, but I think the bottom line on an admittedly sweeping assumption that most minorities come from a less privileged environment is: if you come from a well off/privileged background, a “top name” doesn’t do that much extra for you, but if you come from an underprivileged background it’s a real bump compared to what you might otherwise expect?
AFAIK, it was FGLI of any ethnicity and minority from most socio economic backgrounds. Basically, the school resources&network offset not having a family with means&reach as well as prejudice.
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I believe some additional research also found some of the effect might be attributable to what the other options were.
Like, multi-gen/higher-income (MGHI?) families likely knew about all sorts of other suitable options for their kids, including LACs or special focus colleges, honors colleges within publics, merit opportunities, and so on. So, lots of alternative ways of getting a great college outcome for their kids aside from just going to one of the most famous private research universities.
For at least some FGLI applicants, though, if they didn’t attend a famous private with great need aid, they might have ended up at a very different college, or indeed not a four-year college at all. Obviously flagship publics are supposed to fill that gap, but those are not always as affordable and practical as they should be for very low income families. And these families may not be aware of the other not-as-famous privates that might actually have worked for them when it comes to affordability/practicality issues.
Anyway, it is all very complicated. But having read about this, I am all the more committed to trying to spread the word about colleges that might not be as well known as the most famous privates or flagships, but can potentially be a very affordable great fit for the right student.
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Appreciate your commitment!
It’s also important to note that the gap between non-college and college (income, professional stability, ability to save, home ownership, retirement funding, etc.) varies. But the research seems to show very clearly that the gap is HUGE for people whose parents did not attend college (i.e. First Gen).
I don’t believe that everyone needs college. But a kid who isn’t college bound needs a plan. Electrician. Fire Fighter. Any of the building trades. Automotive tech. The sad and all too frequent “bouncing around” doesn’t often lead to a career trajectory.
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I think that this is very true.
I have argued that legacy admissions is not needed. Kids whose parents attended highly ranked universities already benefit from having parents who understand the process. This might mean that a child whose parents have degrees from Stanford and Columbia might attend a highly ranked DVM program (which obviously won’t be at either Stanford or Columbia), but having parents who attended highly ranked schools or at least very good schools means that the students know more or less what is expected (which includes a lot of work, and more).
And yes, we did find very good alternatives that were way less expensive than the big name highly ranked private universities, and were a good fit for each child, and provided an excellent education with very good “appropriate” opportunities (whether these be research, clinical shadowing, internships, or something else).
I do wonder when you see a kid with a very high level of determination and drive just where that comes from. Is it genetic? Is it taught? Does a kid see others succeed and just decide “I am going to get there also, but for my version of *there*”?
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Yeah, there are kids with college-educated parents being channeled straight to college by peer or parental pressure, sometimes just inadvertent parental pressure, who would benefit from exploring other options for at least a while (which can turn into forever, or a very focused degree plan). Then other kids without such parents who would love college and benefit greatly from it, and their parents are supportive, but lack the financial resources and direct knowledge to make it work for their kid.
Obviously these are difficult problems at a societal level. But to the extent we can help any specific kids or parents better navigate all that, there are worse things you can do within an online hobby.
And of course it is also fine to help highly resourced families with kids excited about college as a next step explore more options too. But maybe a less pressing need, because again the evidence suggests such kids from such families are very likely to get what they want out of college. Because they are going to end up somewhere good for them, and their outcomes just aren’t that sensitive to exactly where.
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