best cello program

meekchun · February 4, 2011, 9:50pm

Hi, My high school sophomore S is solid at cello and academics. Actually his cello is far better than study. He wants to be a cellist and college prof. later. We decided not to go to conservatory in order to give him more opportunity.
He wants to pursue joint program or double major with music major of performance.
Do you think he need to study music ed. too?
Which university is best for cello program?

appassionato · February 4, 2011, 10:30pm

you should definitely consider eastman and university of rochester!

jkiwmom · February 4, 2011, 10:33pm

Oberlin College

Georgia_Girl · February 5, 2011, 12:33pm

The USC Thornton School of Music is one to explore if you are interested in cello performance. Midori is chairman of the strings department.

Ralph Kirshbaum holds the Gregor Piatigorsky Chair in Violoncello. Others on the cello faculty are Peter Stumpf and Alex Suleiman. Their biographies are easily found on the Thornton website.

shennie · February 5, 2011, 3:10pm

If your son is interested in teaching at the college level, he will not need to study music education. However, he will either need to be a fabulous cellist or plan on getting a graduate degree in performance. Many of the top cello programs are in conservatories - Eastman, Juilliard, New England Conservatory, Cleveland Institute, Peabody, Colburn - but there are some other strong programs to look at including Indiana University, Boston University, Oberlin, USC and Rice. Understand that all of listed programs are going to extremely competitive.

meekchun · February 5, 2011, 5:59pm

Thank you for detail explanation.
My S has a strong career at cello.
How about NU, Harvard and Yale?
I think NU undergraduate is very strong at Performance (always some students get in strong competitions) and Yale graduate and Harvard/NEC are very strong, too. But how about Harvard and Yale undergraduate?
I know he must go to graduate school but I am concern about undergraduate program, too.

violindad · February 5, 2011, 9:30pm

Harvard does not have any undergrad degree in performance and Yale scarcely has one (it admits so few undergrads to performance that most people are unaware of the undergrad program–its graduate program in music is very well-known and respected).

NW has a good program for cellists (and is strong acadmically). You might also want to look at McGill University: Matt Haimovitz (grammy winner) teaches cello there amongst others.

SpiritManager · February 6, 2011, 2:01am

Whenever there’s a discussion about whether a double degree path might be the best choice for a student - our default site is Peabody’s great post about the differences between double degrees, double majors, BA’s, BM’s, music ed vs. performance, conservatories and schools of music…
[Peabody</a> Institute - Conservatory Admissions: The Double Degree Dilemma](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree]Peabody”>Double Degree | Peabody Institute)

speihei · February 6, 2011, 8:27am

Northwestern has one of the best cello professors on the planet and is an outstanding academic institution. If you read “The Talent Code” you might consider Northwestern your first choice solely for the opportunity to study with Professor Jensen.

The cello studio at Northwestern contains cellists who aspire to performance and cellists who are double majors.

I would echo both the Oberlin and BU suggestions. Eastman, and (not previously mentioned) Bard are also good choices. I don’t know anything more than what’s on the web about Peabody.

Last spring at a Rice audition Q and A session, a parent asked about double degrees and what my wife heard between the lines was along the lines of, “It’s allowed but you won’t have the time.” The question came from a science/pre-med perspective so maybe that had something to do with the answer.

honestmom · February 6, 2011, 9:41am

My brother’s stepdaughter is an accomplished cellist and she got a full scholarship at the University of Kentucky. She also applied to Oberlin and Rice and was accepted at Rice but was not offered full scholarship. She really loves her cello teacher, Benjamin Karp, at Kentucky. She wants to play in an opera orchestra eventually and has made the UK Opera orchestra for “La Boheme” and “Porgy and Bess” as a freshman, which is pretty difficult to do. Also the UK Symphony performed last fall at Carnegie Hall. Those are impressive performance opportunities for a student at “Big State University.” Kentucky is a very affordable school even for out of state students. No, it isn’t Oberlin or Juilliard, but the orchestra and especially the opera program there are fantastic.

glassharmonica · February 6, 2011, 10:06am

What violindad says about Yale is true: the SOM admits very few undergrads. Also, the undergrads are not in a BM or BA program, only a 3 year certificate program. However, anecdotally speaking, a number of high level cellists (and violinists) among my daughter’s friends are Yale undergrads in the regular college. As far as Ivies go, Yale does seem to have an excellent undergrad orchestra and music program for kids in the college who are majoring in academic disciplines. There are certainly example of students who graduate from Yale, Harvard, Princeton (and even Penn) who go on to MM degrees or even careers in music.

SpiritManager · February 6, 2011, 11:41am

Of the conservatory quality students I currently know who are attending Princeton, Harvard & Yale - they’re all studying privately outside of the college either in New York City or Boston.

glassharmonica · February 6, 2011, 11:59am

SpritManager, true, although I think Yale students are sometimes able to study privately with SOM faculty by special arrangement; I do also know of some who study with Yale music department faculty. I thought the OP wanted to explore the possibility of an academic majors in undergrad, as opposed to a conservatory. I have been told that the student orchestra at Yale is quite good. There are music-minded kids who go to academic schools but study privately on the side. Some schools subsidize these private lessons.

SpiritManager · February 6, 2011, 12:21pm

@Glassharmonica - you’re absolutely right about subsidized music lessons at schools - lots of great schools offer that, although sometimes it takes some digging deep into a college’s handbook/catalog to find that info. And, yes, I’ve heard of the rare student at Yale who is accepted into a graduate studio.

There are so many different paths for a student - more than they generally think about in high school - and many of them can lead eventually to the same place - either an MM in music, or playing in one’s medical school orchestra!

meekchun · February 6, 2011, 12:42pm

Appreciate so many helpful advices.
I never expected how much hard to be a musicmom. I saw many students who have musician parent got many help but I couldn’t. I will search colleges as recommended. S will go to Heifetz in this summer and will have a chance to contact with Haimovitz and Jensen.
One more question; What is the advantage and disadvantage of conservatory or college with Music major in order to go to good graduate school? Thanks!

BassDad · February 6, 2011, 12:47pm

Getting into the double degree program is not easy at Peabody/Hopkins. You must be musically talented enough to get into Peabody and academically talented enough to get into Hopkins as if you were applying to each alone. Even then, you are not guaranteed to get into the double degree program, rather you must be selected for it and they do not select very many. If the OP’s son is not near the top of his class academically with very good GPA and test scores, Hopkins alone will be a tough admit.

violadad · February 6, 2011, 1:08pm

meekchun, this <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html</a> may be helpful in finding previous info already on the forum.

The Yale/Harvard/Princeton/joint program music path has been rehashed here innumerable times. Some of the more recent:

It depends. Is the intended graduate path a performance/music path, or a non-music academic path. In most cases, a conservatory MAY serve better for a performance discipline; Depending upon a graduate pursuit in a non-music academic area, the academics within most US straight conservatories are better suited. The high academic/top level music programs can often be the best of both worlds.

meekchun · February 6, 2011, 1:13pm

Thanks again! And my mistake! Helmerson and Jensen Not Haimovitz at Heifetz! Violadad, If S want performance/music path, conservatory is enough for graduate school?

violadad · February 6, 2011, 1:37pm

meekchun, in many cases the conservatory undergrad to grad MM is typical. It does not always work for everyone. Some students need/want high level academics in addition to high level music immersion and study. Some students are better served in other programs that combine both.

And nothing is guaranteed. There really is no right answer other than the teacher/program combo that best serves and develops your student to his maximum potential.

tuba269 · February 6, 2011, 11:32pm

Well, I think the vast majority of people that go on to MM degrees come from university undergrad programs, just because the number of BM-granting music programs at universities and the number enrolled in each dwarfs the number of conservatories out there. I’m sure many of the most qualified applicants come from conservatories, and many others come from the music schools in universities that truly rival the conservatory level (along with the standout players from less-known programs). Nothing I’ve seen has suggested that one applicant will be selected over another because one went to a university and the other a conservatory. But really, musically, I think places like Northwestern, University of Michigan, Indiana and Rice really make arguments about conservatory-vs.-university seem a little irrelevant as far as musical development. There may be those who can’t stand the minimum of academics required for those institutions’ BM degrees, but those requirements don’t somehow diminish the intensity of musical focus.

The point is that for grad school, I haven’t encountered anything to suggest that a player will be chosen over another because one went to a conservatory while the other attended a university. The audition system makes it easy to hear who put the time in during their undergrad, and a Juilliard or Curtis degree won’t make up for missed notes or shaky intonation, and a degree from a branch campus of a third-tier state school won’t keep a standout player from getting in. There may be fewer resources at the latter school, but there are always graduate students at top-tier music schools who come from “nowhere” backgrounds.

I think it’s a wonderful thing that the CC community doesn’t seem to rank music schools (which I think would be a fool’s errand anyway because of the fact that there are individual studios in otherwise-unknown schools of music that make certain departments at the best schools look silly). However, I sometimes fear that people that don’t know the system well (which I think frequently includes parents who only start thinking about music schools when faced with the prospect of their sons or daughters enrolling in one) can sometimes make the line between conservatories and schools of music more definite than it is in practice. This explains the phenomenon of colleges and universities retitling their schools of music as “The X Conservatory at Y University,” which I think only serves to confuse parents with regards to the few schools (Eastman/Rochester, Peabody/Hopkins, CIM/Case Western, Westminster Choir College/Rider, etc) where the conservatory is actually a separate location and not just what the larger college university calls its music school.

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