It seems to me that law schools probably do and should rely on the undergraduate program to represent a high degree of challenge and rigor.
Some GPA’s are just “better” than others depending on that schools history and reputation for graduating highly qualified applicants.
A telling anecdote, in response to all the posts that say things such as ‘the tiebreaker often is the rigor of the undergraduate program’ or that the tiebreaker is the prestige of the undergraduate’ uni, or that the tiebreaker is the school they know better, and therefore UVA, with it’s 7% is the best bet:
Virginia resident, Jefferson scholar at UVa (very big deal full tuition scholarship), summer internships in prestigious DC law firms, double major in French Lit and Physics, ended up graduating with some form of distinction (forget which level): put on the wait list for UVa law school. Got a call in the early summer to say that the adcomm had gone to the wait list to choose somebody to fill an open space. GPA had been just a hair below their cut off for the first round, but now that they were looking more closely, they noticed the physics major (they hadn’t the first time), and the internships, and they would like to offer the place.
In other words, they pretty much acknowledged that they had barely read the app- the cut was driven by numbers, even for an internal candidate who was an acknowledged star within the institution, with serious academic rigor and strong, relevant (and paid) summer work experience.
Imo, picking an undergrad place b/c it might possibly increase the chances of getting into a top law school by a few % is not helpful for at least two reasons: other factors are much more likely to be what makes the difference (eg, the ability to get the needed GPA), and the reality that (as impossible as it may seem at the moment) your D may yet choose a different path: there are a lot of changes between 17 and 22.
So, my advice is for your D NOT to choose an undergrad place based on how much it will help her chances for law school, and instead to choose an affordable place where she feels she can bloom- academically, intellectually, socially. [MIT’s advice](Applying Sideways | MIT Admissions), written about ‘how to get into MIT’ is still the best, and can be extended to the college-grad school jump as well:
While I agree that there could be many changes in plans between 18 and 22, as well as the fact that other factors like college GPA obviously make more of a difference to law schools, you have to proceed with the information you have at hand. Assume that her college GPA will be good enough, and that she’ll still want to do law school. So all we can do at this point is to choose the college we think will give her the best chance for law school admission.
So would a 3.6 or 3.7 GPA from W& Mary be more likely to get her in vs a 3.8 or 3.9 GPA from Clemson or USC Columbia?
We’re not necc. thinking of the Top 14 law schools (why is it Top 14 instead of Top 15??), just a good solid and reasonably ranked law school. So looking at the colleges that Yale and Harvard draw from isn’t really that helpful. And very few of the other law schools provide that information. Not with any detail. The best suggestion I’ve gotten is to look at the undergrad and law schools that the law school professors attended. The assumption being that they would have strong ties with their alma maters. But I’m not sure how that may translate to who the admissions counselors decide to admit. I have no doubt there are undergrad colleges that law schools favor. It’s just not easy to figure out which those are, given the dearth of information.
I like @collegemom3717 's advice above.
If your daughter is happy, she is more likely to do well and get a higher GPA. A higher GPA is more likely to get her where she wants to go, regardless of the institution. Have a look at hourumd.com
If she is academically challenged, she is more likely to get a higher LSAT, and again, more likely to get where she wants to go.
To the extent that any of us can know, and allowing for the randomness the universe: NO.
Bouders, thanks for that link. I just spent an hour running some numbers. A huge help. It appears the colleges are listed roughly in a ranking. Is that based on USNWR rankings? Or some other ranking? If yes, any idea what year?
If highly regarded law schools reveal a preference for undergraduate institutional quality, then it appears to correlate strongly with “most selective” (a USNWR category) institutions. In this analysis, 19 of the 20 colleges fall into this category:
https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/blog/top-lawyer-producer-schools-infographic/
From your group, then, it would seem that the two most selective schools, W&M and UVa, may be more likely to confer, either by reputation or, more substantively, educational environment, the greatest advantages to your daughter.
Beyond that, as previously mentioned, I’d give an edge to schools, such as Elon, that appear to emphasize writing.
I’m not sure of the exact year’s ranking for hourumd. The top14 don’t change from year to year.
Hourumd gets its data from lawschoolnumbers. If you go there, click on an individual school and then click on graph (near the top of the page), you’ll see a graph of acceptances and rejections graphed by LSAT and GPA. http://schools.lawschoolnumbers.com/rankings/us-news-report-law-school-rankings
More data can be found here: https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/1/desc/LSATHigh
You may also want to visit the forums here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/index.php