Best fit vs best graduate outcome?

Barnard and Columbia are pretty well-known, with excellent name recognition.

Ditto your other schools for that matter.

Well done on all the thinking and research and of course all the work that you have done to have such great option. You haven’t said much about your parent’s background, but I do know that in many countries ‘college’ is associated with a lower academic level (typically secondary school) and ‘university’ is the key word. There are colleges in the US, UK and Ireland that have changed their name to include the word ‘university’ in order to be taken more seriously. This is one of those subtle language barriers that can be really hard to overcome, so if that is part of your parent’s concern, acknowledge it.

This was a big issue in our family, as one of us is not from the US and only recognized a handful of US college/university names. It has taken a long time to build up the understanding of how names are perceived in the US compared to outside the US. If you are not planning on staying in the US your parent’s concern about name recognition may be more of a concern than if you are staying in the US.

What your parents may not realize is that- especially at the level of schools that you are talking about- quantity isn’t everything: quality counts also. Smaller classes, no/few TAs, no/few grad students means that you have the opportunity to really know your professors- and they are the ones who will be writing your recommendations, who will pull you aside and tell you about a job opportunity, etc. All of the schools that you are considering have extensive student and faculty networks, with high-quality contacts. Size isn’t everything :slight_smile:

That said, Barnard may be just the balance for you: LAC-type environment with all the resources of Columbia. Come back & tell us how your visits go!

@collegemom3717: The funny thing, of course, is that many Harvard alums make the point to say that they attended Harvard College. Harvard Extension School degree holders are Harvard University grads (as are those from Education, Divinity, Kennedy, etc.), but they are not Harvard College grads.

Likewise, back in the day, the various schools of Columbia were more distinct, and Columbia College was the only one that could issue a BA. In order to keep the Jewish population at Columbia College down, Columbia actually created a 2-year school (Seth Low Junior College) in Brooklyn that funneled in to (at that time) Columbia’s undergrad business, law, and SEAS schools or a BS from a precursor of Columbia GS.

For factors related to your interests, you, and your parents, should continue to be aware of these indications of programs and outcomes:

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/infographics/top-feeders-mba-programs

http://blogs.wgbh.org/on-campus/2015/5/5/harvard-business-school-expands-online-initiative-liberal-arts-colleges/

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html

OP- just remember that the single biggest factor in your employment outcomes is… you.

I know kids who attend colleges with fantastic career development offices, unbelievable alumni resources, dozens of companies which show up in the Fall for info nights followed by multi-day interview opportunities, and come April of senior year they are in a blind panic. They’ve taken advantage of exactly zero of these resources. They are busy with their fraternity spring formal, their athletic team, their social lives… and have not done a thing to prepare for their graduation in 6 weeks other than order photos and plan a blow out senior week in Myrtle Beach.

You won’t be those kids. So I wouldn’t sweat the differences at this point. Each of the colleges on your list will give you terrific opportunities to launch- if you take advantage of them.

Go to office hours. Meet your professors (they have fantastic networks themselves- and pick up the phone to a former student and say “I’ve got a fantastic freshman in my class and you should hire her this summer”). Go to career development and do the video interviews, and the mock “meet and greets” and learn how to handle an interview which takes place in a restaurant over lunch and not in a conference room.

They will be able to teach you all of that if you show up. But they don’t come to your dorm room and drag you out to critique your resume.

Best of luck to you! All great choices.

Suggest you look again. Barnard has more Econ majors (71) than English (66). Psych majors = 76.

But time to educate your parents on some AP Stat concepts. For example, $$ outcomes is all self-reported (so of questionable value). Moreover, the $$ outcomes depends on the college within the College. At BC, for example the B-school has excellent outcomes. But, you would not be in the B-school as an Econ major, so the $$ outcome is sure to be different. BC also has a preppy vibe. While half of the campus is technically inside the city limit of Boston, it is a suburban campus for all intents and purposes. That being said, getting downtown or to Cambridge, which has a bunch of bio-tech firms hiring interns, is not difficult.

For what you have shared, I vote Barnard.

This definitely is NOT a problem for Barnard. Very strong alumni network. (And quality is much more important than quantity.) However, your parents need to understand that networks build connections, but rarely are a direct path to jobs. In other words, it’s not a matter of anyone pulling strings for you, it’s whether they call you back in the first place. I agree with PurpleTitan – smaller school produced tighter networks, because there is more of a sense of shared experience among the alumna. Plus I think there is an added bond among alumna of women’s colleges.

Most college grads can find jobs. Not necessarily dream jobs, but jobs nonetheless. It’s natural for parents to worry, but you can and will find employment when you graduate no matter which college you choose.

There’s a really good chance you’ll change your major, too – so now isn’t really a good time to worry about job prospects for econ majors.

If you graduate from Barnard, your diploma will say “Barnard College of Columbia University”, or “Columbia University (Barnard College)” Columbia is an Ivy League school. If your parents are concerned with prestige and career outlook via that prestige, I would think they might find Barnard appealing for the fact that it is so closely affiliated with Columbia, not to mention the quality of the education.

I am PM’ing you.

Barnard is also an urban LAC and appears to have the type of [social?] environment that the OP seeks. Extremely prestigious. I have no doubt that some/many? of those Econ classes will be taken at Columbia College. Win-win.

Barnard still sounds like a great set of qualifications for you - city life / major etc.- but do you want to go to a women’s college? Is that the right fit for YOU?
by the way all of the other places are great academically too - it is really a question of your 4 year fit

@swampdraggin: Well, Barnard is right by Columbia and students at each may take classes at the other (and they’re in NYC) so it’s not like she’d be isolated . . .

You may have sufficient experience to draw the correct personal inferences regarding your choices. Maybe Barnard or Carleton would be good options based on what you’ve indicated @penngirlpending?

@penngirlpending definitely Barnard!! Recruiters/jobs consider it an Ivy League school as it is under the Columbia University umbrella (you graduate at Columbia University graduation and get a Columbia U degree). LinkedIn even lists it as an Ivy League school in Ivy groups. There are boys EVERYWHERE at Barnard if that worries you. NYC has soooo many job opportunities and you can even intern at top companies during the year (much less competitive).

@swampdraggin in regards to what you said earlier, Barnard is kind of a women’s college but not an “all-girls environment” since it is an undergraduate college of a co-ed university (CU). Barnard women take classes at Columbia, join as many and any Columbia clubs/pre-professional societies/ sports teams and Columbia U sororities. CU sororities are actually over 50% Barnard and they have mixers with all the CU frats. Plus, Columbia College, SEAS, and GS students take classes at Barnard, so most classes at Barnard are not all women either.