Best northeastern undergrad Classics programs?

I can’t find recent threads, so hoping for current info. Daughter wants to major in classics with the ability to also explore physical/biological anthropology of the ancient world. Some of the colleges have “classics lite” majors (BC says it’s not for students who are considering post grad study), and some (i.e. Tufts) have discontinued Classical Studies and now has Ancient World Studies, which seems more general. What are the current SLACs and others that have strong classics departments? Is there a risk to a smaller school like Middlebury that seems to have interesting classes but only a few professors? She wants to stay in the northeast (including NY and PA), so Chicago and Michigan aren’t high on her list. She doesn’t want a women’s school, so Bryn Mawr is out.

Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Skidmore, Bowdoin, Swat, Colby, Holy Cross, Haverford, Hamilton.

I am sure there are more. It’s hard to get at which have ‘stronger’ Classics majors. I think it’s also difficult to assess the strength of the department based on how many profs there are…these majors don’t get many students, so how many profs do they really need? Of course some students will take a minor in classes, and others will take a classics course to fill gen eds, but still…not overwhelming demand.

Personally I would stratify based on the language requirements for the Classics major at each school, look at classes that are required, offered, and how often they run, then look at the profs’ research. I am certain the dept heads would be delighted to chat with your D as well.

Is she certain she wants an LAC, or would a uni be ok? For example, U Mass Amherst has a strong classics dept. Has your D identified at least one affordable highly likely/safety school?

Also paging @blossom

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Bates has a classics type major if I recall.

You might also consider St. John’s College in Annapolis, MD. It’s a great books program and graduates are well represented in graduate schools. It’s a unique program and a very small school, but worth looking at IMHO.

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i cannot speak for the other schools but as an Amherst Classics alum, the fact that i still see my favorite professor teaching there after 30+ years (Rick Griffiths) is a testament to the long-standing legacy of teaching at Amherst College. I took Intro to Greek Language on a whim with him and found the class so enjoyable and rewarding, i ended up majoring in it. That’s the beauty of the liberal arts - you never know where walking through one open doorway in an untapped academic area might take you and what that might unlock within yourself.

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Not exactly what you’re asking and not a top overall school but throwing a curveball. This came out a few years ago (link). The St. Johns - that’s their basis so it makes sense.

Be sure to check faculty sizes - if someone has a sabbatical or leaves or is a visiting prof…with cutbacks at many schools, you have to be real careful - and who looks good today may not look good tomorrow. In fact, it may be smarter to look at a larger university - knowing the program will be small. Plus many have honors. Or at least one like William & Mary - so sort of hybrid. And really - a school like Pitt will be not as huge as others like Penn State - but is typically stronger in these areas and has a biological anthropology program.

You are seeking various academic areas that are likely to be limited.

Mary Washington Classics Program Shines as No. 1 Among Student Rankings - News

Biological Anthropology | Department of Anthropology | University of Pittsburgh

I can’t speak to the strength of any particular department, but I will frequently look at how many majors were in a graduating class as a proxy for strength (or at the least, the likely continuation of the program). College Navigator (the feds’ website) only lists first majors (so if someone first listed a bio major and then decided to add a Classics major, only the bio one is listed in its results). This Tableau dashboard shows the number of first and second majors in 2022 (catching the above example, but would miss it if anyone was a triple major and listed Classics as their third one).

This snip shows the top results for Classics and Classical Languages, Literature, and Linguistics, General for colleges with an undergraduate enrollment below 8,694. Your family will also want to browse around and look at other related majors like:

  • Classics and Classical Languages, Lits, & Ling: Other
  • Ancient/Classical Greek Language and Literature,
  • Classical, Ancient Mediterranean, and Near Eastern Studies and Archaeology
  • Latin Language and Literature
  • Latin Teacher Education

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My daughter is majoring in Classical and Medieval Studies at Bates and has absolutely loved it. She didn’t have this major on her radar, but she took one course and was hooked. They have a language requirement: four semesters of Latin or Greek (if a student has previous coursework, I don’t know if that means they can reduce the number of semesters overall or if they just start at a more advanced level but still have to take four). My daughter has worked with fantastic and supportive faculty, and this short term (Bates’s May term), she took an archaeology course in Rome led by two Bates professors. More info here: Classical & Medieval Studies | Bates College

As to concerns others have raised about faculty, it’s true that you’ll want to make sure these departments aren’t disproportionately staffed with too many visiting or adjunct professors, but also keep in mind that interdisciplinary departments’ faculty listings might seem small because they might exclude (or list separately) professors who teach courses in the major but whose primary affiliations are with other departments (history, comp lit, archaeology, art/art history, music, philosophy, languages, etc.). So they might still be tenured/tenure-track faculty but not listed as members of a Classics department.

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As a sampling, these are the numbers of graduating majors in classics, Ancient Greek, or Latin at a few LACs in a recent year based on IPEDS information (e.g., College Navigator - College of the Holy Cross):

Holy Cross: 9
Hamilton: 6
Haverford: 5
Amherst: 0

Such information may offer you a sense for the size of the classics communities at these schools or others of potential interest.

Irrespective of Amherst’s current figure of zero, the above schools have represented some of the stronger LACs for the study of classics in the Northeast of which I am aware. In any case, I’d recommend you explore the course availabllity and research the current faculty for each of the colleges in this group.

With respect to this, Hamilton offers the esoteric major of geoarchaeology:

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Never ever thought I would say this, but have you considered the Ivy league colleges?

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So my S24 was thinking about Classics as a major, and it actually looks like he may be majoring in Classics as a premed (at WashU, so not in your footprint). As a result, we looked quite a bit into how to evaluate Classics programs, and I can share what we concluded.

I think one easy thing to look for is if they teach both Latin and Greek, with reasonable depth. You definitely want both for grad school, and even if you don’t end up wanting to continue in Classics, it is a marker of a “serious” Classics program.

In terms of faculty, Classics is the sort of field where they might do a lot of cross-listing or affiliation of professors, and I think that is actually fine. Of course good if they have a core full-time faculty, and again enough people to teach Latin and Greek (who may or may not be full time). But if they are working with people in Philosophy, Religion, History, Anthropology, Art History, other Languages, Linguistics, and so on, this is probably a good, not bad, thing. Particularly at smaller colleges, but also we saw even large-public Classics departments drawing on faculty in other strong departments, which seems fine to me.

In terms of majors, if there are a decent number of primary Classics majors listed somewhere like NCES, great! If not, though, don’t panic–it is the sort of program where often major counts vary a lot, people sometimes do as a secondary major, or a minor, or just some elective classes–you don’t necessarily need a ton of primary majors each year to have a healthy program. Doesn’t hurt, but is not necessary.

In terms of programs to check out, people have different definitions of Northeast. Personally, I would definitely look at William & Mary, if that is not too far. Really nice school for this sort of thing. They also have a joint program with St Andrews, and Classics is one of the six majors you can do:

Might be worth checking out.

There are other schools in what I think of as the greater DC orbit that might also be worth checking out (I think all the resources available in DC in terms of museums and such make Greater DC a hot bed for Classics programs). Georgetown and Hopkins are quite reachy, although at least you would be applying not as a poli sci or premed! This is a big thing at Mary Washington. George Washington has a cool program, particularly if you are interested in other languages and cultures besides Latin and Greek (Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, and even Uyghur).

In terms of smaller colleges, Holy Cross will be on pretty much everyone’s list. But Bucknell is actually quite robust in this area. People think of them for things like Business or an LAC with engineering, but this is also a (relatively) strong area for them.

Finally, I assume you have thought about this already, but for the record–if you like Bryn Mawr’s Classics department but want (or can only qualify for) a co-ed college, than Haverford is a viable path to that end. Our understanding is thanks to the strong BiCo relationship, Haverford students are in fact taking Classics, Latin, or Greek at Bryn Mawr, going to the legendary weekly Classics Tea and Colloguium at Bryn Mawr, and so on. In fact, as I understand it, they basically plan their courses together such as to be able to offer more variety without unnecessary redundancy. And between them, there are a bunch more affiliated faculty as well. Finally, I note again that Philly has a lot of additional resources to support people with such interests, and it is very easy to get to.

So that is some ideas.

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Suggested Universities

Brandeis University
Brown University
Cornell University
Columbia University
Harvard University
Princeton University
Tufts University*
University of Pennsylvania
Yale University

*See below.

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I would recommend she take a look at Bard’s Classical Studies program.
Edited to add: They have a classics scholarship as well. Awards in Classical Studies

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Larger schools can be nice! I know your daughter doesn’t want to go to the west coast, but I’ve taken classics courses at UC Berkeley and I really appreciate the larger size of the department. It’s not called “Classics” any more, though, so it might not show up in a list like the one @AustenNut posted… this may be the case at other universities as well. The UCB department is Ancient Greek & Roman Studies and in addition to the AGRS major they also have language majors (Greek, Latin, and Greek & Latin). The Greek & Latin summer workshops are great too.

Again, I know she isn’t looking for west coast… this is just an example of a larger university with a strong program.

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That’s where a Pitt comes in I think - and not as large.

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If Pittsburgh counts as Northeast (Northeasterners in my experience tend to say no, but Midwesterners don’t agree it is Midwest, which makes for some fun conversations), I agree Pitt has a very attractive Classics Department.

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Note that the descriptions for these programs are identical:

Note as well that Tufts appears to offer distinct programs in Greek & Latin, Greek and Latin.

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Chiming in late.

Visiting professors is NOT a bad thing/downside, and in fact, often reflects a high quality program and faculty which is a magnet for professors at other institutions who apply to spend a semester or a year collaborating with colleagues. They may be writing a book; they may be planning a significant excavation with colleagues around the world; co-locating with another leader of the project may just be the most convenient way to make progress.

Adjuncts come in two buckets. A college which is using adjuncts to teach Latin and Greek I and II may be using VERY experienced and “master teachers” for these classes which to be honest- are very hard to teach well. Yes, in an ideal world, an adjunct with ten years experience teaching Greek 1 would be a tenured professor but that’s not the world we live in. So I don’t see the use of adjuncts as a bad thing necessarily.

A college which needs adjuncts because it has cut its program to the bone-- yes, that’s a problem. But you need to see who is teaching what in order to figure this out.

I would have no trouble recommending a college which uses interdisciplinary faculty in its Antiquity program. Poli Sci professor teaching the origins of citizenship based on Roman concepts of society? Could be fabulous. Architecture professor teaching the history of public spaces/design from ancient times to the present? Amazing. Geology professor, chem professor, linguistics professors-- the more collaboration the more exciting the program.

The old school “We teach you to translate dead languages” vs. the new school (which recognizes that the ancient world was a multi-lingual, multicultural cauldron of philosophy and art and ideas and music and literature) means MORE professors from other departments contributing their understanding.

Re: big U vs. smaller college- arguments could be made for both.

Tufts is a very fine program no matter what they call it.

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It could be this – OR it could be a non-tenure-track faculty member on a short term (usually 1-3-year) full-time contract that is unlikely to become permanent. So they have more stability than an adjunct might have, but this is not someone who will be around long-term, which becomes a problem for students who need letters of rec, thesis advisers, etc. And because contracts are short-term, these faculty might leave before the end of their appointments if they find tenure-track jobs elsewhere. I’ve seen LACs rely more on this kind of visiting professor than the type who has a permanent position elsewhere but teaches as part of a fellowship of some kind. Usually, LACs hire visiting faculty to fill gaps when tenured/tenure track professors are on leave, or when the budget doesn’t allow them to fill a tenure line. A few of them do offer research/writing/teaching fellowships to visiting faculty who have established positions elsewhere, but not many (this is more common in research universities).

To be clear: adjunct faculty, visiting (short-term) faculty, visiting fellows, and tenure/tenure-track faculty all have the potential to be phenomenal teachers and scholars. Due to the unstable and capricious nature of the academic job market, some brilliant and talented people just don’t get permanent jobs. But people who don’t have the job security that comes with a tenure track are more likely to be overextended (because they might need to pick up courses at several schools), and of course they’re more likely to leave. That’s why it’s important to see who’s in the departments and what their titles are.

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My daughter is an Amherst Classics major alum as well. :waving_hand:

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From any school, I’d want to know - where next ? Amherst does not publish career or grad school data (not enough respondents) for any of the last six years.

To me, it’s a red flag - at least enough to ask for outcomes from the school / department.