Best way to identify good undergrad science research programs

College Search & Lists
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College websites and tours often tout how great their undergrad research opportunities are. Small LACs talk about undergrads not getting crowded out by graduate students. Big schools talk about tons of labs doing all sorts of research. It is difficult to discern what is real and what is marketing, especially if one is not familiar with university level science research (and most high school students are not).

As I understand it, having high quality research experience is very important when applying to PhD programs.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on how someone who is interested in biochemistry / chemistry / biology can objectively assess a college’s undergrad research opportunities?

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Consider the availability of for-credit, faculty-mentored research courses. Ideally, you will see these listed as part of the formal curriculum and as being available to underclassmen. Courses of this type may culminate in senior research or senior thesis classes, which may extend across two semesters. Opportunities to conduct on-campus research during summer interims also should be viewed favorably.

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My daughter was a biology major who was interested in research. She made it a point to ask about research opportunities during all college tours and she asked for specific contact information to ask questions. She also spoke to students.

I believe many schools will have research opportunities for undergrads. My daughter didn’t have a problem finding them just by asking.

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If you are able, talk to current students in your intended major and ask how easy it was for them to find research positions. We toured one school were a student candidly told our D that positions were super competitive and nearly impossible to get until junior year. At other schools, it’s a simple as asking a professor to join their lab/research team.

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While there will be “research opportunities” at any school, they will vary by school and department.

How should one define “high quality”? Let’s take the example of a biology LAC professor who rarely publishes. Your kid works with them for 4 years and gets tons of 1-on-1 time. Kid presents their work at campus research fairs and at regional undergrad-only conferences and gets to put that on their CV. Prof writes a stellar letter.

Kid goes to huge public R1 instead. Amazing research with high-profile professors all over the place. Kid competes for a position in a big lab, manages to nab an unpaid 1-year stint, and gets assigned to a PhD student to help with their project. Maybe kid gets authorship on a paper, or gets to present at a conference but probably not. Prof writes a letter but can’t put in many details because she barely knows the kid and there are 3 other lab members named Nick (she gets the Nicks confused).

Or the kid might attend the huge university, apply for a special cohort program, get into a small lab to do paid research in freshman year, get their own project junior year, get 1-on-1 time with the professor, present their work at conferences, and get a stellar detailed letter from the prof (this was my experience at my state flagship).

There’s a lot of possibilities. A highly motivated kid will be able to get research experience no matter where they go. So that wouldn’t be very high on my list of priorities in choosing a school, personally.

The priority is to find a school with a good fit, and then the kid can be really proactive. Do some learning on their own about the professors’ research. Drop by a few professors’ offices to ask them questions about their research, and if they’re looking for students. Apply for NSF REUs starting in the first year (look it up, it’s an amazing program).

There are tradeoffs at big vs small, public vs private, etc. If your kid is leaning toward a LAC, they should not be discouraged thinking that the research opportunities aren’t good enough.

I used to teach at a LAC (now at an R1), and my spouse still teaches at a LAC which is not highly ranked. We and the other profs we know at LACs provide intensive, personalized support for our students to reach their post-graduate goals (and are quite successful). That happens sometimes at big schools, but not nearly as much in my experience. The tradeoff is that the work isn’t as fancy at LACs and gets published less often, but that’s not so important for undergrads.

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When someone starts talking about undergrad research, particularly in science, it makes me think of students who have thoughts of going on to do grad school in science. One tool I find useful is looking at how many graduates a school has that go on to earn a doctorate in a specific field. Students who end up getting a PhD were 1) sufficiently prepared in undergrad to get admittance to doctoral programs, and 2) sufficiently prepared to be successful at completing a doctoral program.

The link below gives info on which schools end up producing graduates who earned a doctorate, up through 2018. You can use filters to specify the subject (whether chem, physics, bio, etc) and I usually filter the years to look at 2000-2018, but you can look at what interests you. Another point to pay attention to is the size of the undergrad school. For instance, U. of Wisconsin - Madison surely has many more students who go on for a PhD in physics than Lawrence. But, when you compare the size of their populations, Lawrence is a very heavy-hitter in that field.

Just wanted to provide another perspective to what you might be asking:

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Research opportunities depend on the initiative of the student. No one will hand them to you.

Here are real outcomes of three students whom I know well:

  • Daisy Duke: attended a small LAC. Found research at an Ivy League uni and did that for two summers. Got hired at a hospital in the NE and worked in research for 2 years. Currently is doing a PhD at a famous private university in California.

  • Cindy Lou Who: Attended a well known private university in California. Completed a research-based master’s degree at a famous university, then worked in research at a hospital for 18 months. Currently attending law school at the same private university as Daisy Duke.

  • Marcia Brady: attended a small LAC. Found a summer research position at a state Uni by reaching out to a prof whose worked interested her. Got hired at a hospital in the NE and worked in research for 2 years. Attended a research-based master’s program at the same famous university as Cindy Lou Who. Works full time in…research.

The common factor for these women is that they all had a clear interest in research and got jobs doing research. So in each case, these women were well-prepared for the rigors of their respective post-grad degrees and/or jobs. But they all had to take initiative to accomplish the things they have done. For the two women from the LACs, they reached out. I think for any students interested in doing research, there is enough to go around for everyone. It’s a case of figuring out what (and who) interests you and finding research geared towards your interests.

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I agree with the other posters that part of finding a good undergraduate science program is as much about your own initiative as the institution. I have worked around top researchers who did there undergraduate work anywhere from unknown state schools to Ivies. Undergrad reputation is helpful, but it is more about finding a scientific mentor at your undergrad program. I have seen some correlation with undergraduate research expertise with the US News Rankings of undergraduate research with several of the lesser known schools on that list really delivering great undergraduate research experiences, but there are other schools that can provide that experience as well.

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Add me as one more voice to the “student needs to take the initiative” song. My younger s was clearly interested in doing undergrad chemistry research, so when we attended an admitted students day, there was an opportunity to meet faculty from different departments at lunchtime. DS plunked himself down at the chemistry table and chatted with the professor, who then took him up to see his lab. Bingo, DS was a research assistant with that professor his freshman year.

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I think this is the key point that you and others have expressed — if you are a bright, hard-working person with initiative, you can find research opportunities in your area of interest, somewhere. I am used to consulting and banking, where getting a summer internship is extremely competitive no matter how bright or how much initiative you have because thousands of applicants vie for very few spots (and most are only for rising juniors). And then recently looking at good high school summer research programs, I saw a similar phenomenon of thousands of applications few limited spots.

But it seems that while any single university research opportunity might be competitive, there are so many out there that a person who looks and goes after them should be able to get one.

I am curious though that both LAC students in your example did work outside their schools over the summer. Is that a reflection that LACs have fewer internal research opportunities relative to the interest level of their student populations, or is that just a matter of two people’s personal situation (for example where they were living over the summer)?

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Daisy Duke, Cindy Lou Who, and Marcia Brady…

Where is Jaime Sommers??

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Marcia Brady was offered a summer research position at her LAC, but she wasn’t super interested in that particular research. She also wanted to be closer to home over the summer and that position would have required her staying on campus (yes, some students at LACs stay on campus during the summer for various reasons). When the professor she contacted offered her the opportunity, she took it because it was personally more interesting to her.

Many people think LAC campuses are devoid of students and profs in the summer, and that no research at all happens at LACs. That isn’t the case. Professors at LACs are focused on teaching during the academic year, but they can also be engaged in their own projects. How many profs are also doing research at any given LAC? I don’t think it’s a minuscule number. Seems like a great question to ask an AO at any colleges of interest.

I still get newsletters from my D’s LAC and there are very regular articles about such and such professor being awarded a grant, receiving a Fulbright to do research, getting some award, publishing the results of some study, etc…

I just listened to a podcast today featuring a scientist at a UK university who is collaborating with a prof at Davidson. A sample of one, but just because a prof is at a college doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything more meaningful than teaching.

Students seem a bit obsessed with research. Again, anyone can find the opportunities if they pursue them. Students should also pursue grants to fund their summer research. I’m not sure people are aware that many (most?) colleges have funds for exactly this purpose. I know that Marcia Brady approached the professor at her summer research uni out of the blue. He wasn’t advertising for an assistant. It was an unpaid position and she applied for a grant to make it possible.

@BoroDad probably the grandmother to a few bionic grandkids?

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I also wonder how a high school senior or their parents can evaluate opportunities at different colleges and universities. In our experience, my two daughters both were able to find opportunities that were appropriate for them, one at a moderately large state school and one at a small “primarily undergraduate” university in Canada (basically a Canadian LAC). I am not sure if either school is one that I would have thought of as “heavy research oriented”. However, both apparently had opportunities and my daughters found them.

My best guess is that the small LACs are correct when they claim that their students get research opportunities and do not need to compete with graduate students, and big schools are correct that there are tons of labs doing all sorts of research.

I think that the students can help themselves through some combination of being a strong student, being a reasonable person and treating others well, and actively looking for opportunities.

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I think some students appear to be obsessed because they think it is necessary for medical school or because they think it will strengthen their application for other degrees (the latter could be true, depending on the desired degree).

My daughter did it in order to see if she actually enjoyed it. She was deciding on a possible career path.

I do think it helped as far as working after graduation and applying to grad school.

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I chose to do a senior research project and thesis in college. Presented it to faculty in the department, they approved and funded it. Was pretty cool, actually.

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Definitely! I can say without doubt that in the case of my D, her undergrad thesis was extremely important to her first fulltime job postgrad, and her master’s program. She put her thesis on her resume. It was a big project requiring approval, studies, surveys, mentoring, etc…

I also did a thesis in college. I think all students should consider colleges that have a thesis requirement, or at least offer the option. It was by far my most “important” work in college.

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One could ask s.o in the depts of choice how many courses a year professors teach. The answer should be 4 to 6. More than that and it’s basically impossible to conduct research and/or mentor undergraduates (research/thesis).

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In terms of data, I agree with looking at PhD feeder rates, and I think you can also look at the number of people who have that primary major. And actually, you can combine the two. I think it is a good sign if there is a decent number of primary majors (relative to the overall size of the school) AND they go on to generate a decent ratio of PhDs to primary majors.

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However, colleges that would be notably strong for graduate school preparation may not enroll a disproportionate number of students with an interest in pursuing a PhD (Williams may represent an example of this). Nonetheless, these colleges can make excellent choices for particular students with PhD aspirations.

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Williams is a top 8 school for overall per capita PhD feeding per this study:

But yes, self selection is a problem. I think if instead of norming to overall student body sizes you instead you number of primary majors, you can help address that a bit. Nonetheless this is still going to be a necessarily crude approach, and I would not get too caught up in the details of specific rankings.

However, I think if a college is AMONG the ones that place a decent number of people in PhDs given the number of primary majors in that department, that is a decent positive indicator that they have the professors and other support necessary to make that happen for interested students. And so I think if you look at that data more as a lead generator than as a strict ranking you should adopt, it can be helpful.

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