Between the Lines: the ED Contract

Colleges & Universities Cornell University
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<p>I’m really interested in applying to the College of Arts and Sciences Early Decision. My parents filled out the financial aid calculator on the website, and we don’t qualify for one cent in need-based aid; however, my parents are unwilling to pay the full tuition, room and board. It says on the Early Decision agreement on the Common Application website that “should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the Early Decision commitment.” Does this mean that if we aren’t awarded enough financial aid to meet my parents’ price range, we can cancel the agreement? If we don’t qualify for financial aid, and I apply ED and find out that not any will be rewarded, can I withdraw from the Early Decision agreement? Finally, is the ED agreement the same for all schools, or will different schools have different policies. I know my friend just applied ED to Vanderbilt with the same situation that I have, so he might be screwed if he finds out this isn’t the case.</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>Invilliers</p>

<p>p.s. Chance me.</p>

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<p>We just had a lengthy thread about ED, go search and take a look, but basically - yes.</p>

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<p>You do not need to attend if you can’t afford it. On the other hand, you will most likely not be considered for other tippy top schools during RD round either. I don’t understand why you would apply ED if your parents are not willing to pay for it.</p>

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<p>I’m in the same boat as you, so I applied for ROTC scholarships, which are really easy to get as long as you are somewhat physically fit and dont mind being in the military for a few years. And my counselor said that if you pull out of an ED agreement the school pretty much rejects all ED applicants from your school for the next year or so.</p>

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<p>Like Oldfort says, why are you even applying ED at all? Unless you expect to hear miraculous scholarships between now and Nov 1, you’re the perfect candidate NOT to apply ED.</p>

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<p>^^^^ Yes, sorry I did not add that.</p>

<p>There’s no point in wasting an ED application if there is little chance you can pay for the school through all means.</p>

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<p>Bottom Line – I’ve never heard of a school making someone go.</p>

<p>However, if the financial aid calculator says you will get no financial aid, you should assume that you will, in fact get little or no financial aid. If that means you cannot attend Cornell, you would, in all likliehood be wasting your ED application on this school.</p>

<p>In addition, I believe that a student posted last year that after declining an ED acceptance from Cornell for financial reasons, another Ivy that had issued a ‘likely letter’ ended up rejecting him (essentially saying that their financial aid package wouldn’t be any better than Cornell’s). This suggests that the Ivies share information and that you would hurt your chances at other schools. </p>

<p>Bottom line – based on your situation, I would strongly recommend against applying ED.</p>

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<p>I ask because I contacted the school and they said the real financial aid application will be different and people often get more aid than they thought they would get. But then they also said that I shouldn’t depend on getting merit or need-based aid. If I apply ED and decide to actually go my parents can, in reality, pay the full price. We would probably just have to cut back on vacations or something. I know my parents can, but they won’t. My second choice is Washington & Lee, then SMU. I really wish the total cost was around 15, and they gave out less financial aid. No matter what your income is, $58,000 is pretty expensive.</p>

<p>p.s. Can someone chance me for Regular Decision? I think I’d get butchered in the RD applicant pool.</p>

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<p>That was me Zephyr!</p>

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<p>The real financial aid will be different IF your parents’ tax returns and income are significantly different than the one used for the online calculator. If not, then the online calculator is correct and you most likely will NOT get anything from Cornell. I basically went through what you are talking about: I applied early decision to the college of engineering, got accepted, and got no financial aid from Cornell so I withdrew my acceptance in January. I actually did use the online calculator before hand and it calculated I would get 0 aid from Cornell and yeah I definitely should NOT have applied early decision.</p>

<p>Your parents are right, there is no sense in paying $60,000 a year unless you are very wealthy; Cornell is not worth that much money a year. There are plenty of great schools and programs and you apply to and enter for a much lower cost. I ended up at Rensselaer polytechnic institute, a highly reputable engineering school, and am paying about $25,000 a year, down from the original cost of about $60,000 a year due to a merit scholarship. If you are strong enough to get into Cornell, there is a good chance you can win substantial merit scholarships at other schools, including RPI, that will significantly curtail the cost of attendance. You also need to think about your plans after graduating from undergraduate college. For example, I plan on applying to medical school, which is a fortune, and I don’t want to be in any debt if I do enter medical school.</p>

<p>Bottom line: Don’t apply early decision. Even if you apply regular decision, you really wouldn’t get any more financial aid from Cornell than if you applied early. Cornell doesn;t offer merit scholarships and in the absence of significant changes in your family’s income, your financial aid offer will only increase IF you get a better offer from another Ivy League School, Stanford, MIT, or Duke (Cornell will match any offer from any of those schools, even if you initially get 0 aid). And those schools give basically the same or near the amount of financial aid at cornell except for Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford who have more funds and are generally more generous with financial aid.</p>

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<p>I’d probably be better off at Ole Miss, right? I can go for free, I’ll be a legacy at the best fraternity, and my friend’s jet will be making round trips once a month. Oh, the irony kills me!</p>

<p>I really don’t understand the concept of financial aid. If you want to go to a prestigious school, you either have to be poor, wealthy, or brilliant. The upper middle and lower upper classes are at such a disadvantage!</p>

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<p>Cortana and zephyr: I’m dying for someone to chance me!</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/1398482-chances-history-major.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/1398482-chances-history-major.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>cortana - I hope you are enjoying RPI. Based on your posts and all, I think you were a lost to Cornell. It is unfortunate that students like you couldn’t afford Cornell, but as you said, there are a lot of great schools out there that would give out good merit aid.</p>

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<p>Thank you, I am enjoying RPI; while it’s definitely smaller than Cornell in most aspects, I have made good friends here, the ratio isn’t bad at all (especially in biomedical engineering :D) and also the pre med program is very organized here and RPI has a very high placement rate for getting pre meds into medical school. The close proximity to Albany medical college/center also opens many doors for volunteering and research.</p>

<p>Invilliers, your chances at cornell look very low, even early decision. ECs seem a bit random and lack focus and passion and class rank is not competitive enough.</p>

<p>Since you want to study history, take a look at liberal arts colleges: most have, at least, strong history programs.</p>

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<p>"I really don’t understand the concept of financial aid. If you want to go to a prestigious school, you either have to be poor, wealthy, or brilliant. The upper middle and lower upper classes are at such a disadvantage! "</p>

<p>Since Cornell and a handful of other “prestigious” colleges grant FinAid based on need and not being “brilliant”, your logic doesn’t flow here. It’s their money to give away – they set the rules. If your family’s income and assests are such that cutting back on vacations allows you the ability to full pay at Cornell, then you get no sympathy from me.</p>

<p>I recruit in a large urban school district with the lowest HS graduation rate in the country. About 1 in 100 9th graders will graduate from college in 8-9 years. And I’m just talking about any four year college – nothing like Cornell or Ole Miss. Since you’re a potential History major, maybe reflect back on the privilege you’ve enjoyed to this point. It’ll give more meaning to what you study.</p>

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<p>Cortana</p>

<p>Glad that things are going well at RPI especially considering how disappointing it must have been last year. </p>

<p>RPI’s a great school. I actually had remembered it was you with the Columbia Likely Letter-- btw, that was a great post to share.</p>

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<p>Invilliers</p>

<p>Tough to gauge your chances. If a few go to Cornell each year from your school, they probably know the school’s grading system and can estimate class rank. As others have said – your class rank looks low. </p>

<p>Given that your ACT is ok, but not a 35 or 36, and your activities look a bit middling, based on your rank, one would have to say that Cornell is a reach or a high reach. Sorry.</p>

<p>However, and here’s where I hesitate, I really don’t know anything about your school, but I do know that there are many schools where top 10% is not necessary for a reasonable shot at admission to Cornell. I’m aware of at least one competitive public school that regularly gets at least 50 or 60 Cornell admits and I strongly suspect that there is at least one other in the same category. Similarly, the top Prep Schools routinely have more than 10% overall admissions to Ivies and Ivy peers. </p>

<p>If you’re fortunate enough to go to a public school whose reputation is this good – well none of us even have a basis for comparison. My best advice – talk to your Guidance Counsellor (or College Advisor, if your school has one) to develop a list of schools were you are both an academic match and where you will be able to attend based on the economic resources available to you.</p>

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<p>T26E4: I meant that if you’re brilliant, you have a shot at a merit-based scholarship. If you’re poor, you’ll get financial aid. If you’re wealthy and you can get in ED, then you’re fine. If you can barely get in ED and non of the above three apply, you’re left out. Someone on here mentioned what this sort of predicament is called–the barbell effect. Colleges hike up the cost and give generous financial aid, leaving those you don’t qualify for financial aid facing 58,000 a year. </p>

<p>My dad grew up extremely poor and has been working his whole life so me and my brothers will have “a better education and better opportunities” than he did. He isn’t around much because he’s working all the time, so now I wonder if being successful is really an advantage for my education and opportunities. Vacations are really the only time I get to spend with him. He’s always traveling and working, and I’m really starting to crack down on academcis (since junior year, actually). I’d estimate my dad’s income is around 350-450 a year. I have two brothers in college, 25,000 each a year. He pays my mom 35,000 a year for me and my other brother. He also pays for my grandparent’s apartment rent, living costs, and medical fees, which are very high because of my grandfather’s fragile condition. They live in Germany and the taxes are outrageous there. My stepmom is just now recovering from skin cancer, and those medical bills are also pretty high. On top of all that, he bought this house in a good school district so we wouldn’t have to pay private school tuition, again for my education and opportunities. On top of all that, he’s in the highest taxable income bracket, so he shells out around 30% a year to the government. So that 400k income doesn’t look that high when you take all the factors into consideration. Apparently they do take these into account on the FAFSA and the financial aid calculators, and we still get 0 in aid. That’s why I’m not sure how financial aid programs make sense.</p>

<p>Zephyr: Thanks for the insight. The kids who have gone to Cornell in the past few years have all been valedictorians; however, most of the top ranked kids at my school, Highland Park, usually go to Vanderbilt or Duke or UVA. I think they’re capable at HYP or MIT, they’re just usually more conservative and prefer Southern college life. Highland Park is technically a public school, but you really shouldn’t treat it like one. HP is comparable to most top private schools. Actually, I just looked some facts up: HP ranked 15th on Newsweek’s list of top high schools in the U.S. HP is 99% white. Jeff Barrows, a physics teacher quoted in The Daily Campus, said that the students “aren’t the first in their families. There is a precedent that precedes them in terms of academic stature. They’re nurtured that way at home. They are inquisitive because they have been asked to be that way outside of the classroom.” Not sure why he said “precedent that precedes,” but he wasn’t that good of a teacher anyway! Some of the kids here are absolutely crazy about getting college admissions.</p>

<p>I went to Memorial High School in Houston for two years, which is pretty comparable to HP. They have a much better tennis team, and that’s when I went to the state championship. Neither seem like public schools, and I think Southern colleges know this and consider it.</p>

<p>So, considering my upward trend and the school I go to, would anything change?</p>

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<p>I obviously know colleges can use their money where they want, but I don’t agree the way they do it is the most efficient. How about making the total cost 10% of your family’s income? A flat rate would make a lot more sense and better achieve what they’re aiming for.</p>

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<p>You know – the problem with ‘chance me’ threads is that none of us here on CC really knows what goes on in the admissions offices.</p>

<p>So, I think my advice is the same – talk to your GC and/or your school’s HS advisor. They are trained professionals, who have a better feel for where you should apply, given your circumstances. Also, if you have Naviance at your HS, it’s a good start towards chancing yourself.</p>

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<p>^definitely, and your guidance counselor should have a feel of the type of student who gets into schools like Cornell and will be able to help you far more than us</p>

<p>Thanks zephyr and I really brought that disappointment on myself by being naive- hopefully less students this year make that same mistake</p>