I’ve never hired someone to do landscaping/patio/walkway installation. I got five bids. Two I eliminated immediately.
Landscaper A: Recommended by a neighbor who is very fussy; good reviews online. He is the cheapest. But he was very pushy — never asked what I wanted, saw my backyard and drew up a plan in about 10 minutes. Some of it I like, some of it I don’t. For example, he decided I don’t want grass, and insisted I get ground cover. His company does all the work.
Landscaper B: Great reviews on Angie’s list. I really liked him. He had ideas, but he was open to what I wanted. Does a lot of work in the neighborhood. Then his price came in — it’s a much higher than A and more than I want to spend. His company does all the work.
Landscaper C: Gets good reviews on Houzz. I liked her a lot. She had several creative ideas. She’s a designer, and hires another contractor to do the work. Her price was a little higher than Landscaper A — one difference is her charge for design/project management.
Landscaper A said his base for the patio is 10” of sand and gravel; Landscaper C said 4”; landscaper B didn’t say. I’m concerned about what C is recommending.
For plantings, A charges $1500, B $2600 and C $1900.
I got a really nice design from C — if I don’t go with her, is it ethical to use her ideas with someone else? Should I pay her something for her ideas?
Should I ask B why he is so much higher?
Can I work to convince A to do what I want and not what he wants?
What questions should I ask? What else should I do/know to make a decision? I’m really bad at anything to do with landscaping/gardening.
Coming from a community of tradesmen and contractors the motto instilled in me is: “Skilled labor isn’t cheap and cheap labor isn’t skilled.” Of course you don’t want to be ripped off either.
With that said, A should be out. He works for you not the other way around. If he’s already difficult he’s not going to get any better.
I’m confused about your issues with C. Bringing on other contractors isn’t uncommon but if you’re paying her then she should ultimately be responsible for her contractor’s work unless you’re paying the contractor directly.
Imo it is not ethical to just use her ideas but I’m sure others will disagree.
As a structural engineer, I agree with romani. It’s not ethical to use her ideas. We have had people do that in the past with our designs, and it’s very upsetting!
I also agree with not going cheap. Ha, we did that with our own house addition, and it was a disaster. I’m not sure why we were so dumb.
What I would do is contact B and tell him that although you really like his work, he came in much higher than his competitors (use % terms, at least that is what I would do). I would ask him if there was any way he could relook at his figures? “A” would be out. If B can’t get his cost down, I’d go with C. You could always ask her about the depth of the concrete base, and why 4" when another estimator mentioned 10". However, if you really liked B, and they aren’t out of your price range…I’d go with him.
I’m not sure I’d categorize A as “going cheap.” His price is equivalent to C’s price and his base is much much deeper. My concern with him is his attitude, not quality. He did a nice job on my neighbor’s backyard.
My concern with C is that her base is significantly less than A’s and what appears to be standard for this type of work. Her design needs some tweaking (well, they all do, I guess).
I do know it’s unethical to use C’s plan with another contractor – I’d never just hand over her design to someone else without either feeling horribly guilty, or paying her. I’m a writer and that’s the equivalent of plagiarism. OTOH, if you bring in x number of contractors, and ask them all for ideas, by the time you get to the last one chances are you’re going to be incorporating other designers’ ideas into your design. If I didn’t go with her, I would take some of her ideas to the others because I really like them.
I’d go with B. He’s done the design work and can control exactly how the patio is built and what it will utimately look like because he’s using guys who work directly for him.
C may be one of several designers who use a particular contractor. Does C’s fee include oversight of contractors or is that extra? How often will she be onsite to make sure contractors are following her specifications?
Looks like there’s a big difference among these designers in terms of planting costs–have they specified plants?
I’d ask B if he can do better on his quote–maybe you can cut costs on plantings.
I wouldn’t not use A! You are the client and he’s not listening to what you want or at least not explaining why he can’t do what you want.
I would go with B. Have him come back out and go over the design with you as you look at your yard. Discuss the budget for each item. Decide what is most important to you: patio, walkway, landscape. Can you have a patio smaller, walkway different material, cut back on expensive plants?
I would say that perhaps B is not too expensive, but that your budget is not large enough to do all you want the way you want it. Also, look at other yards the contractors have designed and installed. Talk to the owners about their experience.
I want someone who can provide what I want and if not, tells me why that won’t work. I’m the one who has to look at it every day so I have to be the one who likes it. If you want grass, you won’t be happy if it’s only ground cover. And then you will want it redone several years later.
I think you need to call references before making a decision.
I don’t think it is unethical to use her ideas. A preliminary sketch with basic ideas is different from a final set of plans. Unless there was some agreement that you can’t use her ideas or that you pay for them if you do, I don’t think there is anything that prevents you from incorporating her ideas into your final plans. Obviously, that is going to make me unpopular but that’s what I think. (To avoid coming under attack, I should note that I haven’t done this).
I suspect “A” has some left-over plantings from other jobs, and has a really good eye for what works. If you came across as wishy-washy or uncertain, and concerned about price, he may have felt he could blow your job out with minimum time and maximum quality if you do it his way with no changes. I suspect he would do an excellent job, but values his time and would not “work with you” very well. It will be his way (and likely very good), or the change-order costs will sink you.
Nothing wrong with “C” if she knows what she is doing. She is offering to interpret your wishes into an actionable detailed plan. If you feel the 4" is not deep enough, and that is a symptom of her overall inexperience, then she may not be the one. “B” is very expensive, but it sounds like he will go slow, work with you, and get you where you want to go.
It sounds like you either pay tuition as a newbie and go with “C”, or trust “A” and let him come in and do his thing; his way. It sounds very much like a time-on-job/handholding versus money tradeoff to me.
If “A” is as good as your neighbor thinks he is, and you really have very different personality styles, perhaps you could see if you could get ‘C’ to work with ‘A’ for something like $2,000 all-in.
Do NOT let any contractor dictate the plans. Do listen to find out why they would choose their vision, but as stated above, you have to live with the place. It doesn’t matter what 90% of people want, it matters what YOU want to live with. I’m also leery of anyone who just goes with what you say you want- you may not realize consequences of your choices.
I would feel free to incorporate any proposed designs into my vision. The person making the proposal should be able to be competitive in executing the design. If someone else can do basically the same thing a lot cheaper use them. Of course you have to compare apples to apples. The details matter.
what kind of patio are you having done? When I had our flagstone patio put in I ended up with a number of estimates. I had each of them explain in detail what they were going to do. It was amazing and kind of scary the different ways that were proposed. What I learned was don’t assume anything unless it’s in writing.
If they’re doing concrete work they probably need to pull a building permit. Make sure contractor pulls permit in his name and not yours. Make sure contractor is properly licensed and insured.
Type of patio: concrete pavers. Good advice to ask in detail (and in writing) what they will do to install.
Type of soil: I haven’t the foggiest idea. I didn’t even know there is a difference between soil. I am not a gardener, I have no intention of ever becoming a gardener. My one direction was to make the plantings as maintenance free as possible. One problem with most of the plans is that they have too many plantings! Actually – our backyard is such a mess right now I think that everything is being removed and new stuff brought in. One of our decisions is whether to seed or to use sod.
I’ll ask about if a permit is needed. None of the five estimates mentioned that. I’m sure A and B are properly licensed and insured; don’t know about C because I don’t interact with the actual contractor.