<p>There has been a similar thread on the College Life thread, but I am curious about what my fellow parents think. If your student receives a full ride, or close to it, will you still have the same requirements for them working during the summer and/or school year to cover personal expenses? I am torn - because my student worked hard during high school, I feel that he should benefit from that hard work since we would have paid for at least part of his expenses had he not received the scholarship. On the other hand, I feel like the leisure time will not prepare him for the real world. While grades are adequate, he’s not just killing himself with studying. What do you think? I am quietly putting the bulk of his college savings away for his future use.</p>
<p>I’m sure you’ll read as many various responses as there are posters, but my personal feelings are that the kid (adult?) should be working during any period possible. In addition to it building character, it shows potential employers initiative and drive. My D started working at 14 (jr. camp counselor) and has held a job ever since (volunteer or for money). She has continued to push herself without killing herself. As she heads to NYC for her sophomore year in college, she’s ready to conquor. </p>
<p>As long as he’s not “killing himself with studying” he might as well use some of that energy!</p>
<p>Until the scholarship, we always agreed that he would not work the first school year, but he would after that. He has always worked summers since he was 16, but with girlfriends and whatnot, has been coming up short. I feel that a part-time job in his junior year would be good for him, but I also feel that we look awfully cheap being the ones to mostly profit (so it seems) from his scholarship.</p>
<p>If he is getting a scholarship to cover pretty much everything, then i really think he needs to be treated like an adult who can figure out what to do with his time. I would have a lot of conversations about doing meaningful things–work, volunteer stuff, travel, internships, but I would let him make his own decisions. Ordering him to work in order to build character seems counter productive.</p>
<p>I agree, but he would be working to cover his entertainment expenses. The building character part would be in taking care of his own wants instead of depending on us to do it for him.</p>
<p>We never really pushed our daughter to work because she has always been very busy with school work and ballet (20 hours per week). We have always given her allowance for entertainment. This summer she designed and ran a ballet camp for 4-6 year olds. Even though the pay was 3 times of minimum pay, it was very hard work. She said she would have to work 2 hours to afford a dinner out with her friends, and it’s not worth it, whereas before she never thought much about spending money on going out. I think working gives them a perspective on cost. She is also a lot more appreciative of what we do for her.</p>
<p>Both my kids went to private colleges of their chosing based on their desired career choices, with the understanding we would fund the bulk of it.</p>
<p>Entertainment and disposable income while at school would be their responsibility. Both mine were required to accept any offered student federal loans in their names (or contribute savings in that amount) to fund their education. We covered the rest- tuition, room and board, books, fees, gas and vehicle insurance while in school. </p>
<p>We also covered professional periodicals and association membership costs related to their chosen careers while in college.</p>
<p>We did not cover clothes (other than one late summer outlet trip if they wished), entertainment, eating out, dates, social fees or any acquired vices or habits.</p>
<p>Both my kids had significant institutional and outside merit scholarships that significantly reduced our out of pocket costs. Both were required to fund their own discretionary spending.</p>
<p>A sidenote: our experience is that most out of pocket spending was on food. Both kids frittered away enormous amounts on take out and restaurant food. We were close enough to visit occaisionally (son is a classical musician and daughter played varsity soccer; schools were an hour apart) and supply their freezers and food larders with single serving microwave dinners, frozen homecooked favorite meals, pasta, snacks, soda, bottled water and they still spent enormous amounts to the point that we refused to pay. They’re both still paying off credit card balances with interest for these purchases. </p>
<p>Both kids were on meal plans, and had their own cooking facilities and their foodstuffs were not shared or stolen. I went so far as to purchase a dorm sized cube freezer for my daughter to avoid her having to eat out.</p>
<p>Without some sort of limit, you’ll quite probably end up paying thousands for countless pizzas, burgers, delivered chinese food, topless bar visits, $1.50/can machine purchased soft drinks, uncountable cd’s and a bureau full of thongs and belly shirts depending on the sex and habits of your offspring.</p>
<p>Our son recieves merit scholarships totalling $25,000/yr and we expect him to spend his summer productively. Following frosh year he again life guarded at the beach down the street. The next year he remained on campus working with one of his profs on an OS programming project. This summer he was at an internship in Pasadena, Cali.</p>
<p>Just because he received significant merit money, that is no reason not to maximize the opportunities availed to him. And come next year’s graduation the summer experiences together with his academic performance and undergrad research experience should be a big factor in having post grad job options.</p>
<p>At least he hopes so given that a job offer in Pasadena has already been offered.</p>
<p>Violadad,</p>
<p>I think you’ve nailed it. It is the “acquired vices” and all the meals out that worry me. He has his meals paid for and even though he is on a budget, I’m afraid to allow him to develop spending habits that he will not be able to sustain without credit card debt. My gut feeling is to fund travel abroad, internships, etc., but keep him on a tight budget and save money for a future need, such as a down payment on a first house. We give him enough money to enjoy himself cheaply and I feel that if he wants to develop champaign tastes, it would be fair and practical to have him fund those tastes.
This is all a new worry to us, because until he received the scholarship, we were sweating it. I know other people have been doing a balancing act between what they “can” give their children and what they “should” give their children, but it’s new to us as well as our son.
I also think it has a great deal to do with the personality of the student. Some you can give the world to and they can stay grounded but others need to be pushed in the right direction.</p>
<p>In theory, I have one opinion, but reality is something different. Our boys both had work studies, and they funded everything (including books, and in S2’s case, a new instrument) outside of tuition, room and board, and an occasional flight home. But we never had any requirement about them working in summers. We did have the rule, as originaloog says, to spend the summer productively, but that didn’t always involve a paycheck. S1 worked one summer, did an unpaid internship one summer, and spent a summer in a study abroad. S2 (musician) spent the first summer as a paid musician in a pit orchestra, the second summer hanging about home (practicing) in Germany, and the third summer (this one) at an unpaid (but free) festival in California. (He comes home tonight!) We liken that last to his elder brother’s unpaid internship.</p>
<p>All summers were productive, but not necessarily lucrative.</p>
<p>D (also a musician) will not have a work-study. We are not sure whether we will ask her to work during the school year; we will see how it goes. We plan, at least initially, to encourage her to find summer festivals to attend, because she has never gone to any kind of summer camp or program (school in Germany goes through the summer.) Since she is our last, and she earned some nice scholarships, we are willing to go easy on her. Besides, she is our princess and never has to do anything she doesn’t want to do. ;)</p>
<p>I would expect the student to work or do volunteer work during the summer. This would be in the student’s interest because unlike how things were when we were young, now most companies will not hire new college graduates who lack work experience.</p>
<p>Having work experience also would help my student develop the skills and sophistication to do well in a job after graduation, and to know what kind of work he’d want after graduation.</p>
<p>I don’t view working as being equivalent to punishment or suffering. If a student has a job that matches their interests and skills, that can be fun. A benefit of getting a college education is being able to get jobs that one enjoys, not just jobs that pay the bills.</p>
<p>preironic- Just to expand a bit on details:</p>
<p>Merit aid roughly equalled full tuition for both kids, so our out of pocket was room, board, fees, books. Both kids had non standard majors- son a violist, daughter in small animal care and there were direct expenses for each we covered: instrument repair and strings, bow rehairs, professional journals and professional association membership fees, performance clothing; lab needs, grooming tools, scrubs, etc.</p>
<p>The found money made our costs less than we had anticipated, and we went so far as to encourage son to see name artists perform, daughter to attend AKC & ASPCA events on our dime as part of the educational experience.</p>
<p>I had a two year running battle with son regards cd purchases and musical scores, as I felt that these were available in the school’s well stocked music specific library. It was only after he explained that cd’s did not circulate, and that partial scores did not fully allow him to see his instrument’s role within the overall piece that I relented. It made him a far better musician being able to access this material, yet I spent close to $2000 overall for these materials. Definately an unplanned expense, and I know he slipped a few non-needed items past me.</p>
<p>We were an hour away from son, and another hour beyond from there to daughter’s school. Between seeing concerts and performances, soccer games we saw each every four to six weeks if not more frequently, bringing a full load of foodstuffs based on their specific requests.</p>
<p>What stuck in my craw were the recurring monthly charges for convenience purchases that could have been avoided with a bit of thought and planning, and learning to say no in social situations. In son’s case, he often purchased food in the evening before or after rehearsals or concerts rather than returning to his apartment and microwaving an already prepared meal. In daughter’s case, it was a case of too many movies, mall trips, and related social eating. </p>
<p>Each had credit cards in their name, but the bills came to our home address and we paid all educational expenses on them. They were responsible for the rest. </p>
<p>In the case of gas and vehicle, son’s program required a car. Education coursework was often off-site, and it also allowed him flexibility in playing gigs. There were far too many (music) fraternity provincial gas related costs and unreimbursed meals on the road. Son would pay meal bills on credit card for four guys, get cash from them for food and gas, and pocket the cash expecting me to cover the costs. </p>
<p>During soccer season, daughter consumed oceans of water, gator-aid, juice, and we bought these in case lots, bringing 3-5 cases each trip. In fact, she had a first year roomate who is best defined as a sponge. Daughter refused to deal with the thievery. This little b**ch also wore and stole her clothes. When she changed roomates, the consumption dropped by half. </p>
<p>Text messages are another cost. Daughter religiously ran high on costs on these. We covered the basic cell costs for both kids. Any overage or special fees were deducted from what we were responsible for when we paid their credit card bills monthly.</p>
<p>It’s not necessarily champagne tastes, put the repeated pattern of little abuses that add up. It got to the point with each that it seemed they were abusing the situation.</p>
<p>Both graduated in May. Daughter is working full time, and will assume a supervisory role in September. Son has been to two self-funded music festivals on fellowship, taught two weeks in PA, shuttles vehicles full time for a rental car company and has lined up full time studio teaching beginning in September. He’s scheduled for four professional orchestral auditions throughout the fall, and will start grad school next September if auditions fall through.</p>
<p>Both live at home. They have assumed financial responsibility and ownership for vehicles, insurance and repair. They are paying their health insurance costs. They have their credit card bills. They are required to pay us room and board, equivalent to about 4 days take home pay, far less than they would if they were living alone or with roomates in our high cost area.</p>
<p>When son goes to grad school or each wants/needs to move for job, the money will be returned to them as a lump sum, although they don’t know that.</p>
<p>Three months of having an adult “guest” can be wearing. As a mom, I know they are my kids, but they are also adults. Eating my food, and using my house as a base of leisure activities makes my home into a hotel. I would feel the same way whether my children were in college or in their 40’s with children of their own. We’re not talking a week long vacation visit. I’d appreciate it if they either have jobs, are doing job-like work of some kind (substantial volunteering) or doing something for the house (helping renovate a room?).</p>
<p>My kids want to be treated like adults, and I’d like to treat them like adults. We all get along a lot better that way. Adults do not move into someone’s house lock stock and barrel and use it like a hotel for months on end. Just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>I’ll second binx on the “work ethic” for budding pro musicians regarding summer employment. The summer is full of performance festival opportunities and these are in effect a must both for professional development and getting your name “out there” for future networking.</p>
<p>The length of these run from one to eight weeks. Some involve paid stipends, most don’t. Unless one is unable to survive financially, it could well be potential professional suicide by not taking advantage of as many of these high level opportunities as possible.</p>
<p>From my son’s experience, summer work was almost an impossibility with a normal employer, who expected a set number of hours and schedule. The flexibility required to schedule festivals, multiple rehearsals, and accept performances and gigs seemed mutually exclusive if working fulltime at a minimum wage job. The pay for 2 or 3 gigs equalled or bettered full time monthly take home pay at most student level jobs.</p>
<p>After freshmen year, S1 came home and stomped the pavement, submitting several dozen applications into a depressed job market, before finally getting a bite 6 weeks later, for a 20 hour per week minimum wage job that was incredibly boring (working a kiosk in a dying mall). It was a very difficult thing for us parents to watch! This qualifies under the heading of “things you learn on the way to learning other things.” It made him NOT take for granted his future summers, and he became quite proactive in future years, resulting in the internship one summer, and ultimately, three job offers after graduation. He learned up close and personal how to deal with repeated rejection, and how to keep his head up and his shoulders squared and a smile in his voice, when approaching prospective employers.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, his younger brother, who was a rising HS junior at the time, made more money than big bro that summer with just a handful of gigs. He learned something, too!</p>
<p>binx- my daughter still gets mad at my son when he makes in two nights by performing what she brings home in a week.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, those gigs are not everyday occurrences.</p>
<p>Yup, and my S2 points out he works every bit as hard and as long, with the practice and prep time.</p>
<p>When our S had a substantial merit scholarship, it did change our “feeling” about things, but not our underlying values. We had not wanted him to work term-time because of his heavy academic load in Engineering (I am well aware that Engineering students, including his best friend, can and do work to make their college education possible). We did require him to work (or volunteer or study) during summers. He had worked hs summers and the arrangement had been that those savings would be his spending money during college.</p>
<p>Because of the scholarship, we felt that we could make him this offer: we would pay a modest ($125/mo) spending money allowance and he could divert his summer earnings to a Roth IRA. This addressed the worry that you raise, preironic, that “we look awfully cheap being the ones to mostly profit (so it seems) from his scholarship.” We didn’t make the offer for fear we’d look cheap, and I don’t think you look cheap. College tuitions are horrific now and you have your own retirement (and possibly other children to educate) to think of. But allowing our son to “profit” from the scholarship in this way was a win-win.</p>
<p>Because he had to transfer, he no longer has a merit scholarship (and no need-based aid). His summer earnings from this year will fund his spending money needs. But he is frugal and will not need nearly what he has earned. The rest will go, again, to a Roth IRA. Our “modeling” has had a good effect on his approach to thinking about his financial future.</p>
<p>BTW, he got a great internship this summer in his field. Partly based, I’m sure, on the academic part of his resume. And partly based on the work part of his resume, which includes job shadowing in his field and jobs such as ice cream scooper, ice cream maker, landscape assistant, and bell-hop. Job experience as a hs/college student, as others above have said, is an important ielement in career opportunities.</p>